SMOKING BAN---BARS and Legions NEED YOUR HELP!

[Morphine Child]

And really...are people actually staying home just because they can't smoke? That's ridiculous if they are. Are they packing turkey sandwiches for work to eat on the sidewalk so they can smoke instead of popping into a pub?

If people really wanted to see live music bad enough, they're going to go see the band. The same way that non-smokers that absolutely hate the smell of smoke toughed out the smoke before the ban. And if people really want to go eat something they're going to forking eat it the same way that people that didn't like smoke went to eat the food before the ban because they like the food. Would people really rather sit at home and stare at a wall than go somewhere that they can't chain smoke?

Do people's brains stop working because they can't smoke somewhere? Jesus. Did people stop going to college because they couldn't smoke in class anymore? Did people stop working because they couldn't smoke at work anymore? For many, it used to be synonymous. And now it's not. People still work and people still go to college.

[memorymaking]

How would you explain, then, the use-taxes down?

How would you explain the income down?

Where are all the people? What about these businesses documented losses since June 1 over the same periods last year?

I have been out to over 100 bars, legions, clubs, etc.. since June 1 talking to people, looking at their numbers, watching the parking lot, talking to owners.... They are hurting and MAD. And rightfully angry at the tyrannic government.

[conley]

How would you explain, then, the use-taxes down?

How would you explain the income down?

Where are all the people? What about these businesses documented losses since June 1 over the same periods last year?

I have been out to over 100 bars, legions, clubs, etc.. since June 1 talking to people, looking at their numbers, watching the parking lot, talking to owners.... They are hurting and MAD. And rightfully angry at the tyrannic government.

I explained in an earlier post SEVERAL reasons why bar businesses in Fort Wayne slow down in June. Here's one more - Did we get more rain last June, Jennifer? Have you looked into that? We've gotten next to nothing in rain this year. Do you think that could have an affect on peoples activities?

Once again, GRADUATIONS, WEDDINGS, LAKE SEASON, HIGH GAS PRICES..........they exist too, and they are also a contributing factor; don't just put it all on the smoking ban. People act like smokers are the only people who go to bars........Guess what? I bet because of the above mentioned, there are a lot of non-smokers who aren't going to bars these days either.

If the rumor about Hall's is true, then I'm not surprised.......I've played to empty rooms at Hall's restaurants for many years........poor example. I applaud Hall's for continuing to ride a "dead-horse" for as long as they did.

[zenmandan]

LOCAL people who built this city are suffering--Not the chains who don't buy their food here, who don't buy their alcohol here, who aren't vested in our community aren't being hurt.

Sorry to disagree, but you are WAY off base with this one. Indiana law regulates that ALL alcohol for sale must be bought IN Indiana from a wholesaler. Just because a joint in Defiance sells Jack Daniels cheaper than your local bar can buy it from Olinger or National Distributing doesn't mean you can go there and buy it to sell in your bar. First offense is a misdemeanor, but after that, you move up through the different felony levels. And nearly ALL places that buy alcohol to sell in their place of business do so locally. If they don't, it's typically because there isn't someone locally to buy from (more rural communities).

With regards to your point about food...Indiana does not regulate where an establishment buys their food from. If you want to go to Scott's for some steaks for your bar, Merry Christmas to you. Go to Scott's. So if Applebee's decides to buy from some place in Minnesota because it's cheaper, guess what? Joe Schmo's bar down the street can buy from there too. There is nothing saying that you have to buy your food locally. Sure, many local owners probably do because of convenience, but remember, many of the chain places are owned locally by franchisees. They too have a vested interest in what happens around here. Many of them are, unfortunately for local commerce, bound by contracts their corporate headquarters may have with a national food distibutor. This means they are not ALLOWED to buy locally, which, quite often actually, means they have to pay MORE than what they could get it for down the street.

It's well known (everywhere but here apparently) the the bar/restaurant business has one of the highest turnover rates of any retail business. With that high turnover rate, these places close ALL the time, and new ones will open up soon enough. Every year in the US about one million new businesses are started (throughout the business sector, not just retail). Of those million, by the end of the first year, at least 40% will fail. By the end of five years, more than 80%...800,000 of them will have failed. Even if they survive the first five years, of those, an additional 80% will fail in the next five years. (above info curtosy of the Dept Of Commerce) Blaming all these local closures on the smoking ban is ludicrous.

[memorymaking]

Sales and use tax are down over the exact same period as any other June.

Profits are down.

I am well aware of the laws regarding alcohol. My point was that the franchises who aren't owned locally and don't have a vested interest here, don't buy their food here or support the local economy near as much as those who built their lives here.

Regardless of the profit issue...even if we never agree.. its about the right to do what you legally want to in your own establishment so long as no one is forced to go in there.

[sevesd93]

Bottom Line : For the second largest city in Indiana, this town forking sucks and is going straight down the shitter.

[MrSpall]

Bottom Line : For the second largest city in Indiana, this town forking sucks and is going straight down the shitter.

So leave.

Sorry if my tone is harsh, but I read on this site all the time about how the scene here sucks, the venues here suck, the cops here suck, the city council here sucks. I read it everyday and I'm honestly very confused. I grew up in Marion, IN. You wanna talk about a crap-hole? The place is now 1/3 the size it was when I graduated high school (9 years ago). There is exactly ONE local venue supporting original music - and two others allowing cover bands. The cops can't seem to find anything better to do than patrol public parks after 11pm and kick out teenagers with nothing better to do than sit around on benches.

That town blew horribly so guess what I did? I packed up my stuff and moved to Fort Wayne. Since I've been here, I've enjoyed myself. I've met lots of great people, heard lots of great music, and met the girl of my dreams.

Now I'm giving you the opportunity. You seem to hate your hometown as much as I did when I lived in Marion. I took control of my life, stopped bitching, and left. If you can't stand this place, if you really think it's 'going down the shitter', then make room for the rest of us. Your persistently gray cloud won't be missed.

[sevesd93]

Bottom Line : For the second largest city in Indiana, this town forking sucks and is going straight down the shitter.

So leave.

It probably wont be very long at all before I do.

My property taxes keep going up, yet the value of my property stays the same.

Decisions are made for the city without a vote from the people who live here.

The people who run this town are only in it for money. They don't care what happens after they have cashed in and why should they? They are forking filthy rich.

[Al Quandt]

So leave.

A lot of people do especially in my age group. Thier was a council meeting no to long ago about why we loose the 20 somethings to other cities/states.

I left, several times now. Besides being away from my friends I enjoy myself much better in other cities.

Florida : If your establishment makes over 30% of thier money off of food sales then smoking is not allowed.

That law worked out great! It happened while I was living thier. Bars then at least had somewhat of a choice as to whether or not they wanted to allow smoking. Hell Devaneys, the bar that the students from my college frequented said f**k it. We will keep selling our food here and ban smoking then buy space 2 shops down the strip and call it Smokin Devaneys Too.


Las Vegas : If you had food at all in your bar then you could not smoke. This still allowed for the small neighborhood bars to allow smoking. Then Casinos are 90% a smoking enviroment. I loved living there.



Hell my closest group of friends all have been meeting up at Hall on bluffton road for coffee for over ten years now. Now that we have to stop, we just all get coffee at a gas station or make it at home and take it to our practice space and set up a card table.

More recently myself and my band members will just hangout there at night too and drink and smoke in peace. I am sure since it is a commercial building (with no other tenants) we are probably breaking the law by doing that too!

[MrSpall]

For the record I wasn't trying to single seve out - he's just the one I ended up quoting. I just think it's a shame that, with a lot of good things going on around here, people continually bash Fort Wayne. Trust me, there are MUCH worse places to be. I've lived there.

[Jambrea]

So leave.

A lot of people do especially in my age group. Thier was a council meeting no to long ago about why we loose the 20 somethings to other cities/states.
I left, several times now.

BUT...you came back. As do a lot of others who leave thinking Fort Wayne is so bad.

[sevesd93]

For the record I wasn't trying to single seve out - he's just the one I ended up quoting. I just think it's a shame that, with a lot of good things going on around here, people continually bash Fort Wayne. Trust me, there are MUCH worse places to be. I've lived there.

You are right, there are a lot of good things going on around here, but unfortunately they are being overshadowed by a lot of bigger crappier issues.

I know there are a lot worse places to live in than Fort Wayne, but I can guarantee they are no where near the size of Fort Wayne.

This is the Second Largest City In Indiana. So when the hell is it going to start feeling like it? My guess it not until more than 9 people start making decisions for the City.

[bassjones]

I've lived in a lot of worse places. I've lived in a couple of better places... The music scene here is terrific for a city this size. Lots of restaurants and entertainment choices.

However, this city council is ricockulous. 9 people who think they know how I should run my life. "Adults making adult decisions" was how one of the bar owners put it. EXACTLY! If you want to open a non-smoking bar, please do so and I'll be happy to play there 5 nights a week. I had quit smoking until I started playing out again and then I picked it up again and now I'm quitting again. I personally would rather not be around it, but I enjoy playing too much to stay home, and that's my choice. It's not the government's responsibility to babysit my ass and make sure I'm not tempted to pick up a bad habit again or breath in somebody else's second hand smoke. They blame the property tax increase on the state, but guess what, all the state did was quit subsidizing city government so heavily. That's right, they've been propping us up and nannying our out of control spending for years! So now, rather than cut that out of control spending, they raise property taxes. Seems fair, right? I live in the city, but I was as pissed off as any Aboite resident over the annexation. People moved out there to get away from the city, then the city chases them down and forces them back in the city limits by moving the city limits. Yup, that's American Democracy at its finest.

Put it to a public vote. That's all I want. Let the people decide, not 9 dicktators (misspelling intentional) in city hall!

[Oliver's Army]

Has anyone actually LOST a gig from the ban yet?

I mean, actually called by a club owner and told point blankly that the gig was cancelled because of the ban?

Anyone?

And not "potential gigs" either. Real, booked gigs.

[bassjones]

Not cancelled, but my friend normally is booking now for the following year and he's been told directly by a few places that they're not hiring entertainment next year - places he normally books for 10-12 nights a year and told by another that he's the only one they're hiring next year.

Side Pocket Pub has closed their lunch kitchen, and until a month ago they were PACKED at lunch, mostly with smokers who came to smoke and eat at lunch. Now those people are going to carry-out and smoking in their cars. And one cook lost his job and a waitress has had her hours cut.