Challenge

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:38 am

To those of you who don't like Ms. Coulter. Read this anyway. Spot on.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20855

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:05 pm

Democrats are importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables? Then why did illegal immigration absolutely explode under Bush and the Republican Congress? The crazy thing is Republicans are responsible, yet they're still the ones using Mexicans as scapegoats and then blaming the Democrats for the Mexican 'problem' - classic fascism if I ever saw it. And for the last time...the Republicans of Lincoln have nothing to do with the nazi Republicans of today.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say Coulter's a b*tch, though...

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:24 pm

subgenius88 wrote:Democrats are importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables? Then why did illegal immigration absolutely explode under Bush and the Republican Congress? The crazy thing is Republicans are responsible, yet they're still the ones using Mexicans as scapegoats and then blaming the Democrats for the Mexican 'problem' - classic fascism if I ever saw it. And for the last time...the Republicans of Lincoln have nothing to do with the nazi Republicans of today.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say Coulter's a b*tch, though...

Republicans and Democrats are BOTH responsible for this. Bush is an idiot! Simply put, the Democrats want a whole new group of people to entitle, who will then owe them their votes. Republicans are trying to provide employers with cheap labor. Both are trying to solidify the "Hispanic Vote", and neither give a damn about the American People. Nothing new at all. Again, did you actually read the article? Because she rips both parties apart on it, but you seemed to take away Democrats bad, Republicans good, which is 180 degrees away from what she actually said. Don't be so blinded by your hatred of her that you miss some important points in the piece.

In this article on the same topic http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20928 she states, "To the contrary, Democrats are trying to turn new immigrants into wards of the state -- and with some success! -- so they will be permanent Democratic voters. Rich Republicans and their handmaidens in Washington are trying to turn immigrants into a permanent servant class." So, she's blaming the "Rich Republicans" for importing a servant class, not Democrats.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:47 pm

bassjones wrote: Because she rips both parties apart on it, but you seemed to take away Democrats bad, Republicans good, which is 180 degrees away from what she actually said. Don't be so blinded by your hatred of her that you miss some important points in the piece.

coulter wrote:We fought a civil war to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.

She doesn't seem to blame rich Republicans to me, but maybe I don't read so good. The left's new form of slavery? WTF? Again, Lincoln's Republican Party of 1860 was "the left" at the time. Again, this massive influx of illegal immigrants happened under Bush and the Republican congress.

I actually agree the illegal immigrant issue has been allowed to get out of hand in order to create a working underclass lacking basic rights to be exploited by the corporate powers. This underclass was also created in order to be used as a scapegoat for economic and social ills, a focal point for nationalist and racist hatred...hmm, almost sounds like the Jews in nazi Germany...but who created this problem? Certainly not the democrats...

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:00 pm

Forget about the "Donkeys vs. Elephants" on this debate.

It's a fact,.. that both sides of the aisle have failed to
secure the border over several decades. Or have the
backbone to settle this divisive issue.

It to this day, still baffles me how the specific
word "illegal", can still be danced around.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:20 pm

subgenius88 wrote:
bassjones wrote: Because she rips both parties apart on it, but you seemed to take away Democrats bad, Republicans good, which is 180 degrees away from what she actually said. Don't be so blinded by your hatred of her that you miss some important points in the piece.

coulter wrote:We fought a civil war to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.
She doesn't seem to blame rich Republicans to me, but maybe I don't read so good. The left's new form of slavery? WTF? Again, Lincoln's Republican Party of 1860 was "the left" at the time. Again, this massive influx of illegal immigrants happened under Bush and the Republican congress.

That's ONE paragraph of the article. Read the whole thing. Read both articles for that matter. How many "limousine liberals" do you think employ illegals to nanny their kids, serve as maids, etc...? I'd be willing to bet it's more than Republicans who do so.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:24 pm

WBOB wrote:Forget about the "Donkeys vs. Elephants" on this debate.

It's a fact,.. that both sides of the aisle have failed to
secure the border over several decades. Or have the
backbone to settle this divisive issue.

It to this day, still baffles me how the specific
word "illegal", can still be danced around.

Border security is not really the issue. What caused this massive increase of immigrants from Mexico over the last 7 years has been the laxing of constraints on employers to employee illegals. If they could not be employed, why would they come?

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Sure it is! But I'll give you the lax of constraints on employment/employer thing.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:32 pm

It's not the employer's job to secure the borders, it's the governments. Many of them have phony id cards and phony ss #'s. How much more is an employer supposed to do?

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:41 pm

bassjones wrote:
That's ONE paragraph of the article. Read the whole thing. Read both articles for that matter. How many "limousine liberals" do you think employ illegals to nanny their kids, serve as maids, etc...? I'd be willing to bet it's more than Republicans who do so.

I did read the entire article. That one paragraph is her conclusion. Nowhere in the article does she "rip both parties."

Your question is a fallacy of presumption, since both you and I know there is no way of proving that claim one way or another. Besides, the point isn't who is taking advantage of the issue to employ a maid, it is who has the power to make it happen and truly benefit monetarily.

Somehow, I doubt a bunch of liberals own much of the corporate agri-industry, meat packing plants, etc. that employs the bulk of illegals, though.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:50 pm

bassjones wrote:It's not the employer's job to secure the borders, it's the governments. Many of them have phony id cards and phony ss #'s. How much more is an employer supposed to do?

We didn't have any more border security 100 or 50 or 10 years ago than today. In the past, anyone could basically cross the border anytime, yet there wasn't a massive influx of mexicans into the US. So what has caused/allowed this to happen recently? The only thing that has changed is the government stopped cracking down on employers of illegals. Border security is nothing more than cutting the heads off a hydra.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:54 pm

How much more are they supposed to do when a guy shows up with a phony ID and a phony SS#? And for the record, if an employer is knowingly employing illegals they should lose their business license, pay a hefty fine approximately equal to the wages, benefits and taxes they would have paid an American citizen for each hour worked by an illegal, and possibly go to jail. Want to stop illegal immigration? That would be a good start. Then ban illegals from receiving any public assistance and the borders would clean themselves up before too long. That and immediately deport any non-permanent resident caught in any crime, no matter how small.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 2:58 pm

bassjones wrote: And for the record, if an employer is knowingly employing illegals they should lose their business license, pay a hefty fine approximately equal to the wages, benefits and taxes they would have paid an American citizen for each hour worked by an illegal, and possibly go to jail.

Exactly my point.

Source:"2001-2003 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics," Office of
Immigration Statistics, Department of Homeland Security,
September 2004, Washington Times, 5/26/06

Three?

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:00 pm

Maybe it's free Healthcare, free schooling, free welfare, no accountability,
further burdening the American taxpayer and giving nothing back into the system.
And it's funny to me how the country of Mexico is very strict on immigration into
their country from the countries that are on their southern border.
Oh and life and the economy of Mexicosuck so bad that the land of free and home of brave is just that much more enticing.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:40 pm

WBOB wrote: And it's funny to me how the country of Mexico is very strict on immigration into
their country from the countries that are on their southern border.

That's their perogative as a sovereign nation. Are you suggesting they stop their own citizen's from leaving the country? I think that behavior would require a totalitarian form of government. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country like that.

oh and life and the economy of Mexicosuck so bad that the land of free and home of brave is just that much more enticing.

Perhaps, but how is that different than 10 years ago?

Maybe it's free Healthcare, free schooling, free welfare, no accountability,
further burdening the American taxpayer and giving nothing back into the system.

True, I'm not arguing that those in power the last 7 years aren't intentionally attracting illegal mexican immigrants. Quite the contrary.