ASCAP

G Fresh · Post by **G Fresh** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:43 pm

I just got my ASCAP card in the mail today...

...Now what?

Anyone else have any experience with ASCAP? If so, I'll take any tips I can get as far as how I go about getting a publishing deal (there is an office right here in Nashville), copyrighting my stuff through them, etc.?

Let me know.

Thanks.

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:49 pm

You can ask ASCAP all these questions, but it works like this:

You don't copyright your material through ASCAP, you do that by filing with the Library of Congress.

You don't get a publishing deal through them, either: you do that by writing commercial songs and convincing a publisher to take you on and shop your songs around.

The only thing ASCAP does is pay you some money from the pool of money they collect IF music you wrote gets played on radio or TV. If it becomes a hit record, they will know thanks to reporting forms filled out by radio stations. If it gets used on TV (programming or advertising), you have to collect documentation for when it runs and send it in to ASCAP.

This is the gross oversimplification version. Talk to ASCAP (or check the FAQs on the website) for the complete explanation.

G Fresh · Post by **G Fresh** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:20 pm

So ASCAP doesn't do any actual publishing itself? Hmmm...somebody's got some splainin' to do. I met another ASCAP member down here and he made it sound like he got a publishing deal through ASCAP (I listened to some of his songs and they honestly weren't very good), which is really all I want to do and I think I've got some commercially viable stuff.

Well, then can you recommend a good publisher to try?

Also, as far as my copyrighting through ASCAP comment goes, what I meant was that someone (a different ASCAP member) implied that ASCAP would copyright your songs for you through the Library of Congress as part of your membership.

Dammit! I'm glad I don't have to pay any dues...

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:18 am

Nope, nobody got a "deal" through ASCAP. That guy was blowing smoke up yer skirt, which, just in case you haven't noticed, is what 95% of all the people you will meet in the music business will be doing. They just "sold a song" to Hank Williams Jr., they toured with Rush in the 80s, they used to own a studio that recorded The Ramones, they got high with Dolly.

It is possible that someone who works for ASCAP is a friend of yours and introduces you to a publisher, but this is not an official function of the organization.

Also, ASCAP will not copyright your songs for you. Copyright is automatically granted to you at the moment of creation, but if you ever want to prove in court that you are the copyright holder you need to register your tunes with the Library of Congress. (Check their website for more info.) You DO register your tunes with ASCAP so they know who to pay when themusic gets broadcast.

A good publisher to try? Find out who is publishing music in your genre that is getting placed on hit records... for example, if you're writing country, check out the names of the publishers on all the modern country records in print, and pitch your stuff to the names you see most often.

You'll be plenty glad to be an ASCAP member if and when your music ends up being broadcast, because they will pay you money. But that's all they do, which is plenty.

Shaggydoo · Post by **Shaggydoo** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:56 pm

Great thread with excellent information! Thanks......

Garr · Post by **Garr** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:03 pm

A LONG time ago, I had a GREAT article that I wrote about copyrights, what they protect, how they protect it, and how to get them. I think that I'll have to fish that up and put it back out here somewhere.

I had some basic information in a different article about BMI and ASCAP, but I only did preliminary research on that.

Cale · Post by **Cale** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:33 pm

Here's a good trick about copyrights...if money is tight you don't necessarily need to copyright your material immediately, you only need to protect it and be able prove the date of existence prior if someone else were to steal it.

Track your stuff and get your name on the medium. Then send it to yourself thru USPS/Fedex/UPS in one of their approved packages...when you receive it, DON'T open it. The postmark on the sealed package is permissible in court should it come to that.

Iâ€™m not saying to leave your next greatest album un-copyrighted; itâ€™s just a good way to protect ideas. If they donâ€™t turn into anything, youâ€™re not out much.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

Garr · Post by **Garr** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:38 pm

Cale, that is a good idea, but a quick glance at the Library of Congress website will tell you that there are absolutely no legal grounds to this. Yeah, it may give you some peace of mind, but it really doesn't mean or do anything. You're better off saving the postage toward your copyright fee (which is only $30.00 btw)

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-g ... ml#poorman

http://www.copyrightauthority.com/poor-mans-copyright/

The false security provided by this, may actually end up costing you rather than protecting your financial interests.

Recordstar · Post by **Recordstar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:47 pm

Cale wrote:Here's a good trick about copyrights...if money is tight you don't necessarily need to copyright your material immediately, you only need to protect it and be able prove the date of existence prior if someone else were to steal it.

Track your stuff and get your name on the medium. Then send it to yourself thru USPS/Fedex/UPS in one of their approved packages...when you receive it, DON'T open it. The postmark on the sealed package is permissible in court should it come to that.

Iâ€™m not saying to leave your next greatest album un-copyrighted; itâ€™s just a good way to protect ideas. If they donâ€™t turn into anything, youâ€™re not out much.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!! The only LEGAL recognized copyright protection is thru the US Copyright Office. The courts DO NOT recognize the "retun mail to yourself stuff. BAD INFORMATION...I know I am a publisher and have had legal issues with this. Lost my butt in the early years because of ignorance of self mailings. If you have a number of song to copyright..do them in a compilation (10 - 20 songs) on a PA form and CD cost: $45.00 for the whole bunch. The rule is once you write a song it is "copyrighted" but will not stand up in court without US Copyright Office document. Good Luck !!

Garr · Post by **Garr** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:45 pm

Garr wrote: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-g ... ml#poorman

http://www.copyrightauthority.com/poor-mans-copyright/

um, yeah.

echosauce1 · Post by **echosauce1** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:59 pm

This question (I guess questions is more appropriate) is for recordstar.

You said you are a publisher. I have a decent idea of what that is but can you please clarify? What does being the publisher entitle you to that the copywrite holder does not? From what I understand, the publisher gets a good chunk of the royalties. Is this correct.

If you own the copywrite to a song, but sell to a publisher, are those rights transfered? ie, do you no longer have control over the material?

Silencio · Post by **Silencio** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:46 am

1. Don't ask important questions - i.e., anything concerning medicine or law - on internet forums.

2. Get a copy of "This Business of Music."

3. Read it 'til it makes sense.

I'm not being a wiseguy here. This is the right answer to all your qustions about copyright, money and the legalities of the music business.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:00 am

Silencio wrote:1. Don't ask important questions - i.e., anything concerning medicine or law - on internet forums.

2. Get a copy of "This Business of Music."

3. Read it 'til it makes sense.

I'm not being a wiseguy here. This is the right answer to all your qustions about copyright, money and the legalities of the music business.

+1

ASCAP is a wonderful organization and you won't get anyone to take you seriously unless you're a member of it or BMI. Just know what they do and do not do.

songbirdfortwayne · Post by **songbirdfortwayne** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:21 pm

The ASCAP website does provide you with information, forms, links to other sources such as directly to Library of Congress etc. to help you with copyright and so forth, but it is primarily education and information. Occasionally, they sponsor a songwriting / songwriter's contest in conjunction with other sponsors, the winners of which supposedly get a contract or some other prize --- but that's about the extent of it. You can also register your original songs with ASCAP which makes it easier for them to track your royalties, if and when, the songs you wrote start getting air time.

songbirdfortwayne · Post by **songbirdfortwayne** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:29 pm

I second the motion, on getting a copy of "This Business of Music" - don't worry - it's easily understandable and not written in "legalese" and it contains valuable information on a wide-range of topics - not just copyright.

Also correct is the information re: mailing it to yourself. That is only "some" evidence of when the work was originally written. It is admissible in court, but the weight the trier of fact (whether judge or jury) gives to it is subject to the fact situation of the specific legal suit.

If you are becoming a "contender" and getting your music out there - it's time to start with registering your copyright with the Library of Congress. Our U.S.Constitution actually guarantees your work is copyrighted from the date your scribble it down, but it is the ability to prove what you need to prove in a court of law, once the infringement or rip-off happens, that is essential. The best evidence is the Library of Congress archival record, and at the end of the day the cost isn't that much.