Should you practice to a metronome or click trak?

[Garr]

@ the two little kids in the sandlot fight. . .

seriously. . .I am the king of useless, worthless, pointless internet arguments, but this one makes me laugh.

I know both of you. I know you're both good drummers. I think you're both misunderstanding each other.

_al is saying that you don't have to play to a click to be a good drummer. I agree to that. You can have natural timing and be able to keep it without practicing it just like some people have perfect pitch.

Seve is saying that a good drummer should be able to play to a click. I agree to that as well. If you're a good drummer, you should be able to keep in time with something that keeps time. If you can't, then there is something wrong and you shouldn't be the backbone of the rhthym section. Syncopated = good. Off Time = bad.

[HumanDrumMachine]

Well first off as Drummer your Job is to time keep and fill.If you have a voice (a drum voice)use it with respect.this is the oldest man made voice next to the human voice(fact).the technique is to kick back and do your job on a click trak. the fact is that it has it's place but some people use it wise some don't.

AND.....
bassjones sed"Bonham
Buddy Rich
Ringo Starr
Ginger Baker
Carl Palmer
All the Motown Drummers!!! "%100 correct

AND...sevesd93 sed"All those drummers can play to a click. true as well but to say Buddy Rich will use a click is a lack of skill on your part most of the chops YOU play to on the Radio Buddy,funk borthers,Steve Gadd and many more put out there on the seen WITH NO CLICK TRACK

you also sed
"To learn drums you need to be able to play to some form of click. ex. Radio

Arrogance without knowledge? Hardly, I have played for 13 years and I am always getting better and learning new things. Arrogant, Yes Very, not knowledable, I dont think so......"

HELL NO(no disrespect)...BUT... a whopping 13 yrs and you say that... WOW... it hits me hard to see a drummer say that let me see you learn a POLY from the"radio" .it will never come to pass because of the chops you need to do that style is over most heads(and it is at the TOP of the FOOD chain)...ooppss I'm sorry MY name is WIL just a drummer nothing more BUT i started at age 4 and now i'm 34 (you do the math). Time comes with time,heart and soul into you drum voice and i will learn untill the day i die.

sevesd93 you sed
To learn drums you need to be able to play to some form of click. ex. Radio

Arrogance without knowledge? Hardly, I have played for 13 years and I am always getting better and learning new things. Arrogant, Yes Very, not knowledable, I dont think so.

Too bad your not living up here, we could put your theory to the test, and go head to head. I guess I have an unfair advantage though, because I have seen you with Pleasing Melani.

now that is bulls#^t. I will give it to you you got ballz(I was like that for years). i battled back in the day.I only lost one to a MAN that started to give me lessons (1 A month for polish work).It was the first battle i had in 7yrs.To trash drummers with Jokes and to be one is BAD MAN (AS IN MANKIND). I play 6 hr a day 6 days a week (NO click track) there is no joke in that .The drum is my life NOT a punchline.I read very well again NO JOKE.....i GOT a joke for you...................drop a 9/8 over 4/4, 13/16 time or play "R" handed kit when you are left handed left foot or right foot foundation........hold on I DO THAT NOW and i'm just an OK Drummer .NOT FUNNY IS IT........there is a drummer in this city chopping out every day and no one knows HIM/HER. That peraon will blast all of us away ... ........I'm not the best drummer BUT I'm GOOD at what i do as are you(that's what you sed).LOOK if you have a drum voice use it because if you unplug everything what do you have?....Give me 2 spoons and a box and i will give you my voice...SPEAK ON IT...WIL(HDM)

P.S. SORRY TO JUMP IN BUT DRUMMERS NEED TO STICK TOGETHER AND WE NEED TO KEEP IT INHOUSE....NO DISRESPECT

[Garr]

Here I go getting myself into trouble again.

HDM, I *think* you had something to say that was worth reading, but I stopped trying to fully understand it after about five unintelligible incomplete or run-on sentences.

How many times do I have to say it? If you have a point to make, please (for the sake of slow people like me) make complete sentences. Actually follow a train of thought. Allow me to understand your side so that I can make an informed opinion on the point which you are trying to make.

I get so tired of people putting arguments out there that are full of passion and empty of content. There are a lot of musicians in this online community that could help me learn, but I give up trying to understand the convoluted posts that are puked out onto the screen.

Seve did not say that those drummers had to use click tracks, metronomes, or otherwise. He said (if you had actually read his post) that they could and that being able to use one marked the skill of a good drummer.

You have every right to jump in, and I'm glad that you did (except the fact that I had a hard time following the brain vomit). How the hell do you attack a local drummer in one hand and then state that drummers need to stick together in the next? If you truly believe that drummers should stick together, then the last thing that you should be doing is attacking one of them publicly.

Okay, I think I’ve been a jerk enough for this post. To everyone: please use some form of the structured English language when you’re trying to make a point or an argument. You lose almost all validity or credibility when no one can follow the point you’re trying to make.

[HumanDrumMachine]

Here I go getting myself into trouble again.

HDM, I *think* you had something to say that was worth reading, but I stopped trying to fully understand it after about five unintelligible incomplete or run-on sentences.

How many times do I have to say it? If you have a point to make, please (for the sake of slow people like me) make complete sentences. Actually follow a train of thought. Allow me to understand your side so that I can make an informed opinion on the point which you are trying to make.

I get so tired of people putting arguments out there that are full of passion and empty of content. There are a lot of musicians in this online community that could help me learn, but I give up trying to understand the convoluted posts that are puked out onto the screen.

Seve did not say that those drummers had to use click tracks, metronomes, or otherwise. He said (if you had actually read his post) that they could and that being able to use one marked the skill of a good drummer.

You have every right to jump in, and I'm glad that you did (except the fact that I had a hard time following the brain vomit). How the hell do you attack a local drummer in one hand and then state that drummers need to stick together in the next? If you truly believe that drummers should stick together, then the last thing that you should be doing is attacking one of them publicly.

Okay, I think I’ve been a jerk enough for this post. To everyone: please use some form of the structured English language when you’re trying to make a point or an argument. You lose almost all validity or credibility when no one can follow the point you’re trying to make.

sorry i will fix it...thank you for that ...

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[Garr]

sorry i will fix it...thank you for that ...

Man, I'm sorry you got that. This has been about six months worth of rant building up. It's not just you, and really, I apologise for directing it at you. I truly, honestly, was directing it at posters as a whole.

Please accept my apology and know that those statements were aimed at the masses moreso than at you individually.

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[Garr]

Well, for real, I'd like to understand what someone is trying to tell me. I'm not demanding perfect stucture, just a complete thought here and there.

You can be "for real" and still allow me the chance to get the message.

[HumanDrumMachine]

Seve did not say that those drummers had to use click tracks, metronomes, or otherwise. He said (if you had actually read his post) that they could and that being able to use one marked the skill of a good drummer.


.

this is what he sed...
All those drummers can play to a click.

To learn drums you need to be able to play to some form of click. ex. Radio

a MET and a Click are NOT the same. A click or back track YES thay have a place some times . If you have no understanding of time you will never be able to play to a a click or a met ...

keeping time IS YOUR JOB. Buddy lived in a time when there was NO click track.
YES i suck at the keyboard I will proof read next time .You are not a jerk you just did what i was talking about"KEEP IT INHOUSE"we should police eachother and that's a good thing...

[QuiNSANiTy]

I'm not a drummer but I find this topic a very interesting topic. I might sound stupid after saying i'm not a drummer. But it sounds like to me a click track is recorded played back percussive beats in perfect time. I already know what a metordome is.. lol So to me it sounds like it's jamie abersolds for dummers.

Alot of people like Jamie Abersolds Tapes. What are they? Well I think most of us know what they are. But for those that aren't. They are basically chord changes to your favorite jazz standards. Jamie who teaches down in Louisville thought that this would help players of all ages expand there vocabulary. Especially since most people starting off can't just go jam and try to figure out licks, modes, and chord progressions on there own. So he recorded with a rhythm section without a melody and had students learn songs that way.

I know that this isn't about abersold tapes or cds. But I figured the concepts are very simular. With abersolds I can try many "ideas" and concepts without a full band, and I can practice changes and whatever else I desire.

To me it really sounds like a click track is the same concept. Correct me if i'm wrong. But that's what it sounds like. But if that's the case there is nothing wrong with a click track but it sounds like to me like a jamie abersold, you can't learn all your vocabulary from it. It's there to help you if you want it. Especially if your favorite drummer or musican isnt in the room with you, I could see why someone would use it. But at the same time transcribing note for note is the been the best way to full insure yourself you know what their doing and thinking and feeling. Music is a language. Which is why I woudl say interms of style I would just listen to a cd or see a live performance.

BTW i hate abersolds.. lol But when i think about the musicians that came before us like Buddy Rich and Cannonball Adderly and whoever else i'm thinking.. damn how did they get so good? Well... Almost always you hear that these guys listened to their idols and used metrodomes and tuners.
No abersolds or click tracks were around. But The metrodone was. I'm sure MANY musicians use these records of beats and chords to help themselves. But I guess the way I would look at it, if you totally wiped a metordome off the face of the earth, how do you think it would effect all of our playing? And If you did that with a Abersold or Click track.. DO you think it would could our development back? Or do you think it wouldn't matter??

Btw I'm not trying to make a argument to seek out and b-little anyone. I'm just proposing another prospective.

[hahursey]

Brain vomit. Man, I like that phrase. Hahaha.

And I would think that knowing something about playing an instrument, like drums per say, would help someone appreciate the drummer jokes. Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes, but I likes me some good drumber jokes.

[QuiNSANiTy]

Was kinda hoping someone would answer my question but it seems like maybe this topic has warn thin.

[echosauce1]

To start, please forgive me if I'm retreading old ground here. This thread has a lot to digest in one quick read through.

Anyways, I think a click/metronome can be a great tool for practicing, but I would NEVER want to record a song to one.

If you are in a band and the time is pushing back and forth, don't quit or give up, just step back for a minute. Practice it some more. Maybe even set up a click to practice with if the timing is that off. But practice, practice and practice till the point you can rip through the song without the click. THEN go record it. I think the song will sound much better in the end if you can play it together without the click.

Just my opinion

[echosauce1]

After thinking about this, I thought I should elaborate on my reasoning a bit.

From my experience, when you record to a click, everyone seems to focus on the click instead of listening to the other people in the band, feeding off them and making that "magic" we are all chasing happen.

Granted, the timing may be a bit better but.....

After listening to some old tracks from a way long ago old band I was in, I prefer the non click tracks to the click ones. Sure, the non click ones wavered a bit, but if hard pressed to let someone hear it, I would still play the non click ones because I think the end product felt better.

That is why I say keep practicing till the timing is good, then record w/o the click once you all feel it together.

Ok, done ranting and blabbing.

[HumanDrumMachine]

Good point!