Spare The Rod...

G Fresh · Post by **G Fresh** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:37 pm

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:46 pm

" ... I don't know if it's media or television or violent games or what. You've got so many parents out there working their butts off trying to make ends meet, and it's harder for them to supervise their kids. If you get into a situation where parents aren't in control of their kids, they're going to get into trouble."

I vote for...

You've got so many parents out there working their butts off trying to make ends meet, and it's harder for them to supervise their kids.

But someone define "Make ends meet", because when I was growing up we survived on the meager income of a small town, small church preacher who made less than $20,000 a year (4 kids, two adults, a couple of pets). We did without some things - no cable, one well used car most of the time, lots of mac and cheese, grilled cheese, grilled pb and j, fluffernutters (grilled peanut butter and marshmallow cream), etc... well used bikes, hand-me-down clothes, etc... We didn't have a lot of "stuff", but mom was home when we were little and always home after school, we got lots of love, attention and proper discipline and mom and dad knew all of my friends, all of my friends' parents, where we were and who we were with all the time. The only time my father ever so much as threatened to hit me was when I was about 16 and decided to raise my fist like I was going to hit my mom (I don't think I really would have). He tackled me, put his knee in my chest, raised his fist and said "Son, I love you, but that is my wife, and if you ever raise your hand to her again you will regret it."

At any rate. Parents, RAISE YOUR DAMN KIDS!!!!!! They can live without cable, you can live without that 2nd BMW, you can all live with a smaller house, and you don't really NEED as much money as you think you do, but your kids cannot make it without you.

steps down off soapbox...

MrSpall · Post by **MrSpall** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:49 pm

Clap, Clap, Clap.

Well worded.

For once you and I are in complete agreement.

Clap, Clap, Clap.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:59 pm

^ 2nd'd
^

zenmandan · Post by **zenmandan** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:36 pm

bassjones wrote:At any rate. Parents, RAISE YOUR DAMN KIDS!!!!!! They can live without cable, you can live without that 2nd BMW, you can all live with a smaller house, and you don't really NEED as much money as you think you do, but your kids cannot make it without you.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:40 pm

I'll agree, Jones, except increasingly it is:

PARENT raise your kids.

40% illegitimacy rate among whites, up to 70% among African Americans. A majority of single mothers live in poverty.

If you can reverse this trend, you'll see a few other societal problems disappear.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:49 pm

Yes, that issue is a huge problem as well. 70% of African American children are born out of wedlock now??? Holy crap! That's insane! I can remember when sociologists were concerned when it was 25% for African Americans and 15% for Caucasians. It appears their concerns were well founded as well. Geesh! When you consider that 90% of inmates (of any race) were raised without their fathers playing a significant role in their lives, I really worry where we will be in 15 years when all of those children are in their "prime crime committing years".

Morphine Child · Post by **Morphine Child** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:19 am

bassjones wrote:Yes, that issue is a huge problem as well. 70% of African American children are born out of wedlock now??? Holy crap! That's insane! I can remember when sociologists were concerned when it was 25% for African Americans and 15% for Caucasians. It appears their concerns were well founded as well. Geesh! When you consider that 90% of inmates (of any race) were raised without their fathers playing a significant role in their lives, I really worry where we will be in 15 years when all of those children are in their "prime crime committing years".

We should be worried. I work with those exact kids in Noble county, and in talking to the teachers and additional social service folks the patterns and outcomes are hard to overlook sometimes. It's sad to write off a kid at that age, but we can only do so much before they have to make a decision to make life better for themselves.

I also wanted to agree with your statement above about "making ends meet". When I was a kid my mom stayed at home and my Dad worked a lot. When overtime was available he took it. We had what we needed: food, shelter, clothes and money for necessary entertainment and activities. My parents didn't consider a Nintendo or a television in my room with computer to be priority like parents seem to these days. When we were a little older and my mom started working, we got more things. But the stuff I'm seeing is some of these families are receiving our tax dollars and finding the things I mentioned above to be necessities...but that's a whole different, irritating story. haha.

boxcarbooks · Post by **boxcarbooks** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:03 pm

bassjones wrote:But someone define "Make ends meet", because when I was growing up we survived on the meager income of a small town, small church preacher who made less than $20,000 a year (4 kids, two adults, a couple of pets).

Please dont project your anecdote as the poster child of "my parents worked and still took care of us." That's not fair or applicable. People at this point in time are working more (and for less) than people did 20 years ago - 30 years ago - 40 years ago, etc. Plus, without a decent social network, parents can't do what others can. This Western individualism where you blame individuals and not structures is irresponsible and disproven.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:12 pm

boxcarbooks wrote:[ People at this point in time are working more (and for less) than people did 20 years ago - 30 years ago - 40 years ago, etc. . . . This Western individualism where you blame individuals and not structures is irresponsible and disproven.

Wrong. . .studies consistently show that Americans have much more leisure time than they did 20, 30, 40 years ago.

I got sucked into this 'blame the system, not the individual' hooey at one point, too. In 40+ years, real life has proven that viewpoint to be BS for me. Many of today's societal problems are caused by people not owning to personal responsibility for their own actions. It's always somebody else's fault â€“Â the teacher was just trippin', stupid redneck cops, why are they being so mean, arresting me? My parents screwed me up, etc.

There is one person responsible for your success or failure, and they are looking back at you in the mirror. Everything else is excuses; and excuses are like armpits - everybody has a couple and they stink. It ain't about the circumstances (or the system) â€“Â it's how you react to the circumstances, that makes the difference.

If you are drowning and the lifeguard throws you a life ring, if you don't grab it, you can't blame the lifeguard for drowning, or the water, or the makers of the pool. Why didn't you learn to swim when someone offered?

zenmandan · Post by **zenmandan** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:42 pm

=^-..-^= wrote:Many of today's societal problems are caused by people not owning to personal responsibility for their own actions. It's always somebody else's fault â€“

Amen to that!! My wife is a social worker, and according to her clients, it's NEVER, EVER their fault! She tells me that a lot of times, instead of just admitting their responsibility, they'll just make up some dopey excuse, no matter how stupid it sounds. In fact, one of her families just told her they couldn't afford new shoes for their kid. She asked how much they spend a month on cigarettes...$300!! Sorry Junior. Daddy needs to have his three packs a day, so you just deal with your 2 sizes too small shoes. And of course, it's not their fault Junior doesn't have new shoes. It's the fault of the government for not giving them enough on their welfare check. They just don't have enough money to buy "extra stuff like new shoes" because of the government.

Where's the mirror when you need it?!

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:02 am

I had foster kids who were removed for not having food and toilet paper in the house - couldn't afford it. Had the gas shut off too. However, they paid the electric bill, had a big screen, the latest video game with all the games and had the best cable money could buy...

Dad was also a scumbag spouse and child abuser, but that wasn't the original cause for removal.

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:29 am

not owning to personal responsibility for their own actions

Amen.

boxcarbooks · Post by **boxcarbooks** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:17 pm

=^-..-^= wrote:Wrong. . .studies consistently show that Americans have much more leisure time than they did 20, 30, 40 years ago.

You must be a huge fan of laying out counter-arguments with absolutely no proof.

From Library Journal
This is a book with an important message that unfortunately will probably not be taken seriously. Schor, a Harvard economist, argues from statistics what the rest of us know from experience, that "in the last twenty years the amount of time Americans have spent at their jobs has risen steadily." And the statistics, if accurate, are stunning. Each year our work year increases by one day. We average only 16 hours of leisure a week after jobs and household chores. Working hours are longer than they were 40 years ago. And if present trends continue by the year 2000, we will be spending as much time at our jobs as we did in the 1920s. However, as Schor notes, we are also willing victims of this erosion of leisure as we pursue promotions, bigger salaries, and conspicuous consumption. Her solution? Hold jobs to a set number of hours per week, offer comp time for any overtime, and lower our living standards. Recommended for academic and public libraries.
- Jeffrey R. Herold, Bucyrus P.L., Ohio

http://www.amazon.com/Overworked-Americ ... 046505434X

Many of today's societal problems are caused by people not owning to personal responsibility for their own actions.

Obviously, you've really thought out and challenged the individualistic tendencies of our culture.

There is one person responsible for your success or failure, and they are looking back at you in the mirror. Everything else is excuses; and excuses are like armpits - everybody has a couple and they stink.

The archetype of Western individualism. Except, statistics, logic, evidence, etc goes against it. Other than that, it's pretty solid.

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:35 pm

Sociologist John Robinson, University of Maryland:

Since 1965, We have gained almost more of free time per day.
Contributing factors include:
â€¢Working fewer hours
â€¢Marrying later
â€¢Having fewer kids
â€¢More appliances that save time
â€¢Earlier retirement

Cited in John Stossel, Myths Lies, and Downright Stupidity, pg 20-21

MY DOCUMENTATION CAN BEAT UP YOUR DOCUMENTATION _ NA NA NA NA BOO BOO!!

And, to quote Ayn Rand:
"The mind is the attribute of the individual. There is no such thing as a collective brain. There is no such thing as a collective thought. An agreement reached by a group of men is only a compromise or an average drawn upon many individual thoughts. It is a secondary consequence. The primary act â€“Â the process of reason â€“ must be performed by each man alone."

We succeed or screw up on our own,by our own choices, even when it is in just going along with the poor decisions of the 'collective.' Blaming someone else didn't work for Adam, and it won't work for us, either.