Stem-Cell Research - Vetoed!

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sharkmansix
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Stem-Cell Research - Vetoed!

Post by sharkmansix »

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush used his veto power Wednesday for the first time since taking office 5 1/2 years ago, saying that an embryonic stem-cell research bill "crossed a moral boundary."
Well, I can't say I'm too surprised. He's been against it since the beginning, but what I found interesting was that he vetoed the bill in secrecy. Here's what Tony Snow (the white house press secretary) had to say about it:

SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill.

Here's how it works, because I know a lot of you have had questions. There will be no photographers, no ceremony. What the president will do is, in his office, he will sign a veto message, he will hand it to a clerk, who will convey it to a clerk of the House, and then you go through the formalities of announcing a message from the president, and at some point the House will vote on the veto.

QUESTION: Is there a reason why he's not having photographers in, at least?

SNOW: Because he doesn't feel it's appropriate. He's signing a veto.


I find that a bit weak, concidering he had a big press conference after he signed it with families who had children born from "adopted" frozen embryos that had been left unused at fertility clinics.

The thing that bugs me is that they embros to be used would have been given on a volunteer basis. Now instead of possibly using them for research they will just be discarted as medical waste.

Any thoughts?
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Post by traumaqueen »

sure, i have a thought.
and i'm sure you will find that i'm fully missing your point.
but, at any rate, my thought is so amazingly simple:

how about folks just stop killing unborn babies?

then, instead of having a dilemma about how to "properly deal" with frozen embryos, no one will have the opportunity to argue about whether or not there is a moral contradiction between the President praising people for "rescuing" abandoned embryos or keeping a significant political event quiet...........
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Post by sharkmansix »

how about folks just stop killing unborn babies?
I'm confused. Even with the veto thousands of embro's will be discarded as medical waste, so they should keep those extra one's too?
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Post by Garr »

Lewis Black said, about frozen embryos.

They're not alive, butthead. They're frozen. They're frozen. They're frozen! They're frozen! They ARE FROZEN! You could thaw one out like a mini-pizza. They're frozen!
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Post by Garr »

traumaqueen wrote:how about folks just stop killing unborn babies?
I respect your thought, but this statement is opinionated and relative. Some people do not agree (and I'm not stating my position as I haven't decalred one myself) that this is biologically alive.

You have professionals whom I assume are well educated who can't agree on when a developing human is actually alive. I don't have enough study or research into it to make what I would call an educated guess.

My opinion is irrelevant here and I think that the more important issue is that as long as people have differing views on what is alive, there will be no stable ground for this. I wish I had a full transcript of Mr. Black's bit on this because even though it's meant to be humorous, it brings some good points into view.
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Post by jewlee138 »

sharkmansix wrote:
how about folks just stop killing unborn babies?
I'm confused. Even with the veto thousands of embro's will be discarded as medical waste, so they should keep those extra one's too?
Killing babies may be wrong & all, but I'm thinking along the lines of Sharkman, here. It's the stem cell research & what to do with extra embryo's that was in question...
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Post by traumaqueen »

Garr wrote: You have professionals whom I assume are well educated who can't agree on when a developing human is actually alive.
exactly, Garr.
this is why this sort of conversation always and every time leads to nowhere...............

everyone has their own ideas. and no one will ever, ever agree. ever. which is why i get frustrated. which is why i should never involve myself in such forums...........

even though i am incredibly intelligent and perceptive and open........

if i had 1,000 degrees in many things, i still would not be seen as "right" or even reasonable or "credible" by anyone who does not agree with me.

therefore, any of this talk is pointless.....
how unfortunate.
because sharksman has good things to say.
and you have good things to say.
and i have wonderful things to say.|
but, in reality, no one wants to deal with anything anyone has to say that does not justify or reflect their own beliefs.
as an example, sharksman refers to my ideals as "opinionated and relative".
and he is absolutely correct.
but, the thing is, everyone's statements or thoughts are always relative.
there is no escaping that.
one can never completely step outside of their own experience.
this is impossible.
and it will forever be.
one can attempt to see beyond their own reality, which is wise and good. but one can never achieve full detachment.
and that is why i don't belong in this forum.
bye.
sharkmansix
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Post by sharkmansix »

as an example, sharksman refers to my ideals as "opinionated and relative".
and he is absolutely correct.
That was Garr not me! :P
traumaqueen
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Post by traumaqueen »

jewlee138 wrote: Killing babies may be wrong & all, but I'm thinking along the lines of Sharkman, here. It's the stem cell research & what to do with extra embryo's that was in question...
..............as i qualified before i even began my little tangent:

"and i'm sure you will find that i'm fully missing your point."
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Post by Massage...Bored »

Here's what pisses me off about this sh*t, everyone automatically thinks of this as an abortion issue. Wake up and understand the full concept of the research!!!!

"Mr. President, why are you vetoing this bill?"

"Because I don't understand the concept, a.k.a. isn't this about abortion?"
traumaqueen
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Post by traumaqueen »

sharkmansix wrote:
as an example, sharksman refers to my ideals as "opinionated and relative".
and he is absolutely correct.
That was Garr not me! :P
ummm, yeah. i meant "Garr".
darnit!

:oops:
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Post by Garr »

It's okay. I knew whom you meant.

My views, if I had any solid ones, would ALSO be opinionated and relative, so I hope you didn't take that as a jab. It wasn't intended as such.
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Post by jewlee138 »

Yeah, it's all relative & discussion on a FWM.com board probably won't make any difference....

....but I know how frustrating it is to be in a position where you work to raise money for medical research and then you aren't "allowed" to do the research neccessary to move towards a cure.
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Post by traumaqueen »

Garr wrote:It's okay. I knew whom you meant.

My views, if I had any solid ones, would ALSO be opinionated and relative, so I hope you didn't take that as a jab. It wasn't intended as such.
in this sort of forum, i take nothing as a jab.
everything is open to criticism here, eh?
that's what it's all about...........

poop! i said i was "out" of this discussion........
Last edited by traumaqueen on Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by traumaqueen »

jewlee138 wrote:Yeah, it's all relative & discussion on a FWM.com board probably won't make any difference....

....but I know how frustrating it is to be in a position where you work to raise money for medical research and then you aren't "allowed" to do the research neccessary to move towards a cure.
don't forget how fully i can empathize/sympathize on this point.......
when you do what i do, you develop a fairly significant point of reference........
poop!
i said i was out of this discussion!
Last edited by traumaqueen on Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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