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DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:25 am

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DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:18 am

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Garr · Post by **Garr** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:14 pm

well, you can't rely on any Christian sources for what men and women were like when Jesus was alive. Anything Christian that relates to that time is biased by the faith. All those people were Jewish and you have to consult Jewish tradition and church rules. . .of which I am ignorant. . .

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Arkface wrote:
bassjones wrote:That's not the biblically correct stance. Men and women have different roles in the church, but they're both equal. Unfortunately, that's not the way it has been portrayed by many in the church, but Jesus and Paul's words on the subject clearly treat them as equals, just having differing roles.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Equals?

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Equality of stature doesn't necessarily translate into occupying the same roles. Also, those roles don't necessarily translate to outside of the church. For instance, I would vote for a woman to be President (not Hillary, but that's based on political beliefs, not sex), but I wouldn't attend a church with a female senior pastor.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:30 pm

So it is ok for a woman to run the country, but not a church? I'm not sure I understand.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:43 pm

Jambrea wrote:So it is ok for a woman to run the country, but not a church? I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not sure I understand either, but scripturally speaking, that's how it's laid out, so I choose to follow scripture - at least to the best of my understanding.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:42 pm

bassjones wrote:I'm not sure I understand either, but scripturally speaking, that's how it's laid out, so I choose to follow scripture - at least to the best of my understanding.

How can you follow something you don't understand? If a woman can't lead you in church you would think you wouldn't want a woman leading the country. To the best of your understanding and following scripture, how are the two different?

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:01 pm

One is specifically spoken to, the other is not. One is spiritual, the other is material and carnal. Our worship director is a woman, our production ministries director is a woman, our social outreach ministries director is a woman, etc... (it's a very big church), which I believe is scriptural (and considered a "liberal" approach by some), but the Senior Pastor and the Senior leadership team are all males, which I also believe is scriptural. Again it's not a matter of equality, just different roles. The Senior Pastor isn't a "higher" position in the church (or at least shouldn't be), he's just been gifted and assigned to that specific role. That probably makes no sense to you, but it does to me, and it does to the majority of women in our church.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:15 pm

Yes, I guess I am still a little confused. If a woman is equal, why can't she do the same job as a man in the church. This is the definition of equal in the dictionary: like in quality, nature, or status. I take it to mean that if the Senior Pastor position was open, if all was equal, than a woman should be able to get this position. Maybe I just have a hard time with the use of the term equal.

Do you mind me asking what church you attend? I'm just interested to know.

Garr · Post by **Garr** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:16 pm

hey. . .maybe make a new thread for this. . .or i can split it.

this is a good discussion, but not really related to the topic.

thanks.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:50 pm

Can you move this part of it, rather than us trying to recreate it.

BTW, Jambrea, thanks for the questions and thanks for being civil. Lots of bad experience on this subject with people getting ridiculously heated. And I go to Fellowship Missionary Church. And no, we wouldn't consider a woman for that role, because we believe it is expressly forbidden in scripture. Lots of other room in there, but it's pretty clear on that specific role.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:53 pm

I don't see a reason to get heated about the subject. I am just interested in different views and trying to understand the differences.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:08 pm

bassjones wrote:. And no, we wouldn't consider a woman for that role, because we believe it is expressly forbidden in scripture. Lots of other room in there, but it's pretty clear on that specific role.

Could you find the scripture where it forbids a woman be in that role and post it? Is it something that your church interpreted one way, but could be interpreted in another way by other churches?

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:24 pm

Mostly it's the ones posted by Arkface above. There are others.

My wife just wrote a paper on this topic for one of her seminary courses - she's working towards her MDiv in Biblical Counseling to be a hospital chaplain. With her permission, I'll be happy to send it to you. I think she's got some great insight into the topic.

Jambrea · Post by **Jambrea** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:28 pm

That is something I would like to read. It would be interesting to see a paper written by a woman on this topic.