SMOKING BAN---BARS and Legions NEED YOUR HELP!

conley · Post by **conley** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:10 pm

Wow! Who's blindsided you into believing you still don't have choices in this day and age? Man, have they got you where they want you!

I got tired of my suckass poverty job in a factory and went back to skool. It took 9 years going part time and raising a family. It wasn't easy, and many are not willing to put forth the effort.

DO NOT tell me about not having choices!!!!!

I absolutely applaud you for doing that, man - it really is frigg'n awesome; however, not everybody out there has the ability to do that. What about that person? Tough luck to him/her? Too bad?

conley · Post by **conley** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:21 pm

Really, this is a health issue.

The economic & constitutional issues are secondary.

QUESTION(s):
Would you let your child smoke? If not, why? Brad? According to you, it's not a proven fact that it's harmful......So, am I to assume that it's ok, in your eyes, for your child to smoke? If not, then why not?..........Oh, maybe it's a health concern? So, if it's a health concern in one scenario, then why isn't it a health concern in all scenarios? I'm just curious?

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:42 pm

I didn't say smoking isn't harmful. It is. The questions involve the actual (not imagined) ill effects of second hand smoke. The UCLA study I linked to (the longest, most in-depth study of the issue) shows less than 2% increase of smoking associated health problems for non-smokers who lived with smokers for over 30 years. That's insignificant at best and it seems the objections to second hand smoke are more convenience and dislike than any actual health risks.

If I catch my kid smoking I'll probably do what my old man did and force her to chain smoke an entire pack of camel filterless in 1/2 hour

sevesd93 · Post by **sevesd93** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:53 pm

conley wrote:Really, this is a health issue.

The economic & constitutional issues are secondary.

QUESTION(s):
Would you let your child smoke? If not, why? Brad? According to you, it's not a proven fact that it's harmful......So, am I to assume that it's ok, in your eyes, for your child to smoke? If not, then why not?..........Oh, maybe it's a health concern? So, if it's a health concern in one scenario, then why isn't it a health concern in all scenarios? I'm just curious?

I agree this is a health issue, because I am more likely to punch people in the face at the bar since I am not smoking anymore.

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:00 pm

If anybody sees Crawford weasling around tomorrow, please, pretty please, light up a smoke and take a huge puff and then blow as much as possible right in his face for me.

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:57 pm

=^-..-^= wrote:
cwallace wrote:I wish I could 'choose' who hired me...

I wish I had the ability to just quit and go get 'another' job.

Your second option when making that 'choice' not to work for someone somewhere is loss...your home, food for your family, among other things...

There really is no legitimate 'choice' when it comes to where you work...because your other choice back in the day was another factory with the SAME working conditions...

just a point...

Chris
Wow! Who's blindsided you into believing you still don't have choices in this day and age? Man, have they got you where they want you!

I got tired of my suckass poverty job in a factory and went back to skool. It took 9 years going part time and raising a family. It wasn't easy, and many are not willing to put forth the effort.

DO NOT tell me about not having choices!!!!!

Okay, back in the day, there was a labor surplus because of immigration. Apparently, bad as it was, conditions in America were far superior to conditions in Europe. By the 1920's, the number of people working in cities surpassed the number of people on farms. People willingly flocked to cities to escape the 24/7/365 work hours of farms.

Like I said, if back then, government wasn't in the pocket of big business, unions would have been successful much earlier in achieving better working conditions. Henry Ford instituted the 5 dollar work day mainly to stop employee turnover.

You don't have a choice in who hires you...if you quit your job right this minute you wouldn't be guaranteed a job immediately let alone exactly the job you want...

I did not mean you couldn't go out and work your ass off for something more...as I have, but if you haven't noticed there are not too many places hiring everywhere right now.

I have a good education, a TREMENDOUS amount of skill in my field and it STILL took me 9-10 months before someone hired me...

I sent out 1500...yes 1500 resumes and got TWO calls from all of them. The one job I got a call back from was only making voice contact and the other had an opening, but it was a 1.5 year interview and clearance process in order to get the job.

I by some miracle manged to send an e-mail to the right people at the right time to get the job I have now...

So yes you do have a CHOICE on some levels to work where you want...but you also have to GET that job...and in the meantime...you STILL have bills to pay...and where is THAT money coming from?

Chris

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:10 pm

bassjones wrote:and there are always wait-staff positions open everywhere!

No actually there ISN'T. We got probably 10-15 apps a day at Casa when I worked there...we rarely hired anyone new...

It took me TWO months to land a job in a kitchen in this town...to pay me a whopping $7 an hour...

You of all people should know how hard it is to find a job...I quite readily remember you begging people to give you job leads only a few months ago...

Tell someone to just quit their job...I challenge any of you to do it today...just leave...then go find a job fast enough to get yourself on track...

Won't happen...

Ask Garr how hard it is to find a job? He has MAD skills with his programming...he is a third shift janitor...

I got a pretty long list of friends that don't have jobs...that have educations and experience, but haven't been hired...

It is no walk in the park.

Chris

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:24 pm

Oh, I'm still looking for work. This town blows. Lots of stuff for blue collar, bust your ass all day sort of work. Some good jobs for Masters Degrees w/ 15 years management experience and diddly squat for recent college graduates looking to make more money than they can make doing clerical work. I'm still looking, btw. I haven't had an interview in 4 months and my resume is top-notch according to hiring managers I know who've I had look at it. They're not hiring either, but they said if they were it's one of the best looking resumes they've seen in years. Content's solid too, not just the layout. I do have a choice though. I could quit my job and take a risk that I'd either find something soon or pick up enough session work that I could sustain my family for a while in the meantime. I'm not willing to risk it, but that is my choice.

at any rate, it still boils down to "Adults making adult decisions". If you don't want to be a waitress in a bar where people smoke, don't be a waitress in a bar where people smoke. If you don't want to go eat where people are smoking, go somewhere people don't smoke. But quit whining about your lack of choices. The reason you're a waitress in a smokey bar is because of some choices you've made along the way. Choices you've made are why you are where you are in life. That goes for all of us. The reason I'm a clerical worker at 36 is I dropped out of college at 20 to try and be a rock star and didn't go back until I was 30, working a string of crappy jobs along the way. I could have stayed in school, I could have taken a good factory job and be making $50K or more right now (assuming Union wages), but I made some other choices. That's my own fault.

Chances are, if people dig deep enough they will find that where they are now is their own fault as well. If they still think it's somebody else's fault, they haven't dug deep enough yet.

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:35 pm

You want me to bring in the choice we have to keep illegal aliens out of the country to free up some of those jobs?

We could have EASILY opened 30-40 jobs up to people that came in looking if Casa terminated all of the illegals working there...

As I said though...I wish they would pull their heads out of their asses and put this stuff on an actual BALLOT...again Conley is right...it would have gone the SAME way...

I guess the bar owners should have CHOSEN a different path in life huh? Maybe they wouldn't have been so adversely affected by this smoking ban?

Chris

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:41 pm

I still don't think it would have turned out this way if put to a vote. I think the proposed changes would have been the original bill passed if voted upon. If you serve people under 18, no smoking. If you are an over 21 establishment, smoke 'em if you got 'em. That seems fair to me and I'm sure it will to most people.

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:09 pm

I would agree with it. I don't care if people smoke in bars at all...I even smoke cloves from time to time. I enjoy cigars as well.

I just think it is sad that bar owners have decided to create this issue of lost business over it...

The smoking ban is not, for most, a REASON as much as it is now an easy to use EXCUSE...

We will see how it turns out soon enough...

Chris

Sankofa · Post by **Sankofa** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:50 pm

cwallace wrote:The smoking ban is not, for most, a REASON as much as it is now an easy to use EXCUSE...

That's my perception. Keep in mind I'm far from a business owner, but if I had been, I would have been saving money for what was bound to be a rough transition. It might be the optimist in me speaking, but I think people will get sick of drinking at home or driving great lengths to smoke when drinking and eventually return to their watering holes.

It's a matter of businesses adapting. Is it tough for them to do so? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. Club Soda had been planning for a long time to expand their deck and the impending legislation moved them faster. Now they have a huge 2 story setup with smokers galore buying pricey drinks.

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:05 pm

Sankofa wrote:
cwallace wrote:The smoking ban is not, for most, a REASON as much as it is now an easy to use EXCUSE...
That's my perception. Keep in mind I'm far from a business owner, but if I had been, I would have been saving money for what was bound to be a rough transition. It might be the optimist in me speaking, but I think people will get sick of drinking at home or driving great lengths to smoke when drinking and eventually return to their watering holes.

It's a matter of businesses adapting. Is it tough for them to do so? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. Club Soda had been planning for a long time to expand their deck and the impending legislation moved them faster. Now they have a huge 2 story setup with smokers galore buying pricey drinks.

Agreed...also not helping...the elitist 'we are untouchable' attitude that the bar owners have had...that has been one of their downfalls...not just with smoking, but the way some of them treat their patrons in general...

There are a few bars in the town I just don't go into anymore because the owner/managers are not deserving of my business...

Everything will smooth out in time...

Chris

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:44 am

Sankofa wrote:
cwallace wrote:The smoking ban is not, for most, a REASON as much as it is now an easy to use EXCUSE...
That's my perception. Keep in mind I'm far from a business owner, but if I had been, I would have been saving money for what was bound to be a rough transition. It might be the optimist in me speaking, but I think people will get sick of drinking at home or driving great lengths to smoke when drinking and eventually return to their watering holes.

It's a matter of businesses adapting. Is it tough for them to do so? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. Club Soda had been planning for a long time to expand their deck and the impending legislation moved them faster. Now they have a huge 2 story setup with smokers galore buying pricey drinks.

I can agree with that - to a point. What's going to happen at Club Soda, Corner Pocket, etc... once the cold November winds hit, or those cold fall rains, and people don't want to be outside smoking?

I still say, 21 and over establishments should be able to permit smoking if they wish to.

Post by **cwallace** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:52 am

The people that like to eat and be social will still come out...and they will put up those fancy heaters like they have at the lounge for Hockey games...

Chris