I think I am the only Conservative on the Board

[bassjones]

So, taking responsibility for your child's education is "Punishment"?

I'm not talking about picking up trash in the park. How about coaching youth sports or helping teach students art or music? How about spending time in the classroom, helping your child and others learn? You also will find out what's being taught to your kids. How about driving a bus, mowing lawns at the school, answering phones, whatever it is, using your talent to improve the environment at school and assist in paying for your child's education?

[sharkmansix]

Once again speaking from my life:

I was raised in a one parent home. Between my mother working 50+ hours a week, she worked second shift (3pm - 11pm). I would get home from school and take care of myself until I went to bed. If my mother was forced to take part in such a program, we would have went hungry, been kicked out of our house, etc.

So yes, that is punishment.

[bassjones]

You should be very grateful for your mother, and as always, there are exceptions to everything. This would be a situation where private charities and scholarships should step up and contribute. Obviously, in this case, we have a woman who is working very hard to provide for her and her family, and you're right, it wouldn't make any sense to require that from her. However, it's still not the government's job to provide "cradle to the grave" for everyone.

There is at least one college I know of, Hillsdale College, which will not allow it's students to receive any Federal grant money, yet almost 90% of their students receive private scholarships. It's also extremely difficult to be admitted, as it's one of the top schools in the country, and very expensive.

There are several charities which currently pay part or all of the tuition costs for underprivileged kids to attend private elementary and secondary schools, provided their local public school is failing and they demonstrate a desire for education. These students receive a very good education because of private charity.

I also believe the health care crisis could be solved with private charity money and donated time. If every doctor in the country donated one day a month to providing free health care, every pharmacy donated just a small amount of free medication, every hospital dedicated a few hours a month for free surgeries, etc..., we could provide health care to everyone here without one iota of governmental involvement. The biggest reason that doesn't happen now is pro-bono lawyers (yes, it all comes back to that). Medical malpractice insurance is outrageous, some places and some specialties as high as $100,000 - $200,000 a year. Wonder why some doctors work such long hours? Also, they are afraid of being sued by some overzealous ambulance chasing attorney if they can't save every critically ill poor person that comes in the door for free care. Fix tort law, start requiring doctors to donate some time and pharmacies to donate some medicine, etc... and we'll have universal health care. What we won't have is a behemoth ($600 Billion - $1.5 Trillion for Kerry's plan) government program that will do nothing but grow bigger.

[mattjericho]

Let me put this way, I am a liberal that feels safer with a Republican in office

"Those who would give up their liberty for a bit of security deserve neither."

-Ben Franklin

[BasSmArt]

I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but...
Parents who have less time to spend with their children by partaking in volunteer programs or working long hours, have less time to guide and educate their youth...which only contributes to the initial problem, need for aid and the inability to contribute to the economy.
By having government aid programs, the parent and the parent's children have the opportunity to "better themselves". The program is seen as an investment in the future and savings for what the future would potentially present if fewer and fewer people had the opportunity of a good education.
The healthcare costs saved by these government aid programs and the prevention of uneducated children allows our economy to maintain better stability. One parent may recieve aid, by the payoff of all of the parent's children being able to contribute to the economy is much more probable and usually not possible without such help.

[jojo the circus monkey]

Let me put this way, I am a liberal that feels safer with a Republican in office

"Those who would give up their liberty for a bit of security deserve neither."

-Ben Franklin

SCATHING!

\m/

[jojo the circus monkey]

You should be very grateful for your mother, and as always, there are exceptions to everything. This would be a situation where private charities and scholarships should step up and contribute.

i feel where you're coming from when you say what you're saying. but i can't help but think that most welfare people aren't lazy. and i think it's too idealistic to say that charity would solve problems. (wait a minute... how often are "the right" criticized for being too idealistic?)

if the situation is so simple that someone is being lazy (and figuring in physical/mental abilities), then yeah, why not have them do work?

yeah, actually i fully endorse that. i say we dont even have 9-5 jobs and just do occasional work like that.

[justin maloney]

If we are going to talk Welfare lets get some of the numbers.
Administration for Children and Families (section of department of health and human services that operates Welfare.
Actual 2003 budget: 12,999 amount given in millions
As a comparison:
Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation; Defense department
Actual 2003 budget: 57,337 amount given in millions

The total amount set aside to provide Welfare is nearly 1/5 that for Defense department R&D.
I'm sorry but in my opinion when the gap of assistance to Americans compared to that of just defense department research is that large it really negates the cry that we provide too much assistance to the people of our country.
All numbers taken from http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2005/budget.html
not a left or right leaning propagnda machine.

[bassjones]

I'm a total idealist. A right wing capitalist idealist.

I don't think the vast majority of people on welfare are lazy at all. I frankly think they're enslaved by the system and kept there by people whose power comes from complaining about oppression and exploitation, when they are the ones doing the exploiting and oppressing. In other words, Jesse Jackson (and others of his ilk) is the exploiter, not the capitalist system. Quit complaining and use your influence and money to invest in inner city businesses, job training, and education. Instead of trying to take down the capitalist system, let's try to teach people how to better themselves through the capitalist market.

I should clarify, I'm all about a Christian form of capitalism, and the destruction of monopolies is an important part of that kind of capitalism. Individuals investing in their ideas and goals. Individuals working hard to grow their personal investments. I'm not a fan of the huge corporations and oligopolies (is that the right word - brain fart, ugh) in America right now, but the way to break them up is to remove the barriers for individuals to grow small business (tax cuts), so they can compete, not through more regulation, except when breaking up a monopoly (public schools are a monopoly too), or stopping criminal activity.

[bassjones]

I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but...
Parents who have less time to spend with their children by partaking in volunteer programs or working long hours, have less time to guide and educate their youth...which only contributes to the initial problem, need for aid and the inability to contribute to the economy.
By having government aid programs, the parent and the parent's children have the opportunity to "better themselves". The program is seen as an investment in the future and savings for what the future would potentially present if fewer and fewer people had the opportunity of a good education.
The healthcare costs saved by these government aid programs and the prevention of uneducated children allows our economy to maintain better stability. One parent may recieve aid, by the payoff of all of the parent's children being able to contribute to the economy is much more probable and usually not possible without such help.

Except it hasn't worked out that way at all. Instead, we've created a system that traps and enslaves people in it. We have families of 3 and 4 generations on welfare. I'm not saying it's their fault. It's ours. We've created a system that people can't get out of. We've made them believe they can't survive without us. That they can't make it on their own. It's sad and it's disgusting.

[jojo the circus monkey]

I don't think the vast majority of people on welfare are lazy at all. I frankly think they're enslaved by the system and kept there by people whose power comes from complaining about oppression and exploitation, when they are the ones doing the exploiting and oppressing.

so the people complaining about oppression are oppressing?

Instead of trying to take down the capitalist system, let's try to teach people how to better themselves through the capitalist market.

i know you haven't read "A People's History of the United States". i'd like to hear your opinion on it after you've read it.

I should clarify, I'm all about a Christian form of capitalism...

hahahaha no brah, that aint how it works!

I'm not a fan of the huge corporations and oligopolies (is that the right word - brain fart, ugh) in America right now, but the way to break them up is to remove the barriers for individuals to grow small business (tax cuts), so they can compete, not through more regulation, except when breaking up a monopoly...

yeah i'll agree with that for the most part. there's no question about it, small businesses are the future.
http://www.fortwaynemusic.com/boards.ne ... php?t=5527

or stopping criminal activity.

wait, now i'm confused. i thought you wanted to use capitalism?

[bassjones]

so the people complaining about oppression are oppressing?

Jesse Jackson, yes... Al Sharpton, yes... The vast majority of the NAA(L)CP, yes.

If, all of a sudden, no one was being oppressed anymore, Jesse'd go broke. He benefits from oppression and in the process has become an oppressor - I guess more of an exploiter than actual oppressor. He makes things seem worse than they are and fails to recognize the great advancements we've made. Today, more minorities own their own home than ever before in history. While income overall has remained fairly stagnant the last 6 years, minority mean income has continued to rise.

I'm not saying racism doesn't still exist, but Jackson plays on people's fears and memories to make it seem much more prevalent than it is, and make claims of racism where there is none. He's also been known to extort money from corporations, and his personal finances are shady to say the least. He's not alone in that regard.

[sharkmansix]

If, all of a sudden, no one was being oppressed anymore, Jesse'd go broke. He benefits from oppression and in the process has become an oppressor - I guess more of an exploiter than actual oppressor. He makes things seem worse than they are and fails to recognize the great advancements we've made.

We've made advances, but I wouldn't call them great. Civil Rights is still an issue, Women's Rights are still an issue. Travel to the south, and you'll see racism from all sides, and oppression too.

[Evan D]

I am a conservative with a couple of traditionally "liberal" views out of left field - don't believe in the death penalty, for example. Mostly conservative, though.

And about the "most republicans are racist" comment, I think that's been adequately covered, so I can only further dignify it with a big old "lololololololololololol"

Seems appropriate.

[Dog]

why do you laugh out loud when no one can hear you?