This is no good

[MrSpall]

And what exactly was Saddam doing?

Or the Mullahs?

Or Assad?

Or the PLO, Hamas, Hezboallah?

Better to go with the devil you know. With Saddam in power (though he was a bit of a douche) we had constant pressure on him, we were constantly on his case, and we knew where to focus our attention.

Now, with the power base decentralized, we're up against a faceless hydra. We never know where the next attack is coming from. When Saddam was in power, he kept the uprisings to a minimum - I am appaled by his tactics, but there is no denying their effectiveness. Saddam was never going to grow into a bigger threat to the rest of the world, too many sanctions were assuring that. Now there is a huge threat in Iraq, and we can't figure out how to stop it.

Tell me again how this is better. Please.

[bassjones]

It was more than 10 years post WW2 before Germany was as far along as Iraq is now. We lost more US soldiers in single battles in WW1 and WW2, let alone the Civil War, The Revolutionary War, etc...

If 10 years from now Iraq is a thriving Democracy, this will have been worth it and history will bear that out. If we pull out now and allow the current strife to evolve into a full-fledged civil war, we will have done the worst thing possible.

[WBOB]

It was more than 10 years post WW2 before Germany was as far along as Iraq is now. We lost more US soldiers in single battles in WW1 and WW2, let alone the Civil War, The Revolutionary War, etc...

If 10 years from now Iraq is a thriving Democracy, this will have been worth it and history will bear that out. If we pull out now and allow the current strife to evolve into a full-fledged civil war, we will have done the worst thing possible.

You describe a time when the U.S. populace had patience,determination
and resolve.

Fast forward to the "I want it now" short attention span
generation and this isn't good enough/fast enough. Let's solve this like
we're playing a video game. If it isn't accomplished quickly, then it must
be considered failure.

This is what Al Queda has preached to it's own and is counting on.
They have patience,... we don't!

[=^-..-^=]

It was more than 10 years post WW2 before Germany was as far along as Iraq is now.

If 10 years from now Iraq is a thriving Democracy, this will have been worth it and history will bear that out.

If in 10 years Iraq is still rife with instability and civil war, (a very short time in political historic terms) history will bear that out as well.

You can't compare Europe and the Middle East. Democratic government was a slowly evolving process that took centuries. Germany was the seat of one of the most important ingredients in the process – the Protestant Reformation. There has been no such reformation in Islam.

Germnay bounced back because of a history of emerging representative government. (Well, that and the Marshall plan.) In the Middle East, there has been no such evolution, and we are trying to give birth to a full-grown adult.

But I agree; now that Bush stumbled us into this mess, we can't leave now. It would be like leaving the patient cut open on the operating table. I predict that after 10 years of no progress, we will partition the country into 3 states: Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish, and leave with our tails between our legs.