Challenge

[Aero]

I don't think we'll ever come to a permanent solution. Imposing serious jail time and fines for employers that hire "illegals" almost seems too authoritarian to me. Let business owners make their own decisions on who to hire, and let the public respond negatively to the businesses if the decisions are viewed as bad.

Also, if we abolished the income tax and redistributed collection in other ways (on products?) the "illegals" would be forced to pay into the system.

[bwohlgemuth]

Once again, we are looking at the wrong issue here....

The problem is not illegals wanting to get into the United States, but that Mexicans want to risk everything to leave Mexico!!!!

If you think our government is a joke, just take a look at our friends South of the Border. Look at Pemex, which pays over 40% of its revenues as taxes, and will have exhausted its reserves in less than a decade.

Fixing Mexico needs to become our first priority!

[bassjones]

I don't think we'll ever come to a permanent solution. Imposing serious jail time and fines for employers that hire "illegals" almost seems too authoritarian to me. Let business owners make their own decisions on who to hire, and let the public respond negatively to the businesses if the decisions are viewed as bad.

Also, if we abolished the income tax and redistributed collection in other ways (on products?) the "illegals" would be forced to pay into the system.

That's a really good post. And I call myself a Libertarian. Abolish the income tax and make everything a user tax. The other thing that ensure is that people would start to get really pissed off about all the spending going on when they start to see 30% sales taxes, which of course is why the big spenders in D.C. will never let it happen.

[bassjones]

Once again, we are looking at the wrong issue here....

The problem is not illegals wanting to get into the United States, but that Mexicans want to risk everything to leave Mexico!!!!

If you think our government is a joke, just take a look at our friends South of the Border. Look at Pemex, which pays over 40% of its revenues as taxes, and will have exhausted its reserves in less than a decade.

Fixing Mexico needs to become our first priority!

Why is it our responsibility to fix Mexico????? Our government's only responsibility is to guard our borders. And they're not doing a very good job of it.

[Aero]

I don't think we'll ever come to a permanent solution. Imposing serious jail time and fines for employers that hire "illegals" almost seems too authoritarian to me. Let business owners make their own decisions on who to hire, and let the public respond negatively to the businesses if the decisions are viewed as bad.

Also, if we abolished the income tax and redistributed collection in other ways (on products?) the "illegals" would be forced to pay into the system.

That's a really good post. And I call myself a Libertarian. Abolish the income tax and make everything a user tax. The other thing that ensure is that people would start to get really pissed off about all the spending going on when they start to see 30% sales taxes, which of course is why the big spenders in D.C. will never let it happen.

True, but think of how many people would be pissed if the government tried to collect income tax all at one time instead of over time. We'd probably see the same kind of revolt.

You might consider voting for Ron Paul, he seems to have the kind of stance on immigration you like and he wants to completely get rid of the IRS and the income tax system...

[bwohlgemuth]

Why is it our responsibility to fix Mexico????? Our government's only responsibility is to guard our borders. And they're not doing a very good job of it.

Because their internal poverty is causing all of these issues within the United States...

We have the ability to apply pressure (economic, social, political) to help this country pull itself out and turn it into a prosperous country. If anything, this should be our legacy....

[Aero]

Why is it our responsibility to fix Mexico????? Our government's only responsibility is to guard our borders. And they're not doing a very good job of it.

Because their internal poverty is causing all of these issues within the United States...

We have the ability to apply pressure (economic, social, political) to help this country pull itself out and turn it into a prosperous country. If anything, this should be our legacy....

With all the involvement of our country in the Middle East, this isn't going to be possible. The U.S. has too much foreign intervention as it is and we're spreading ourselves thin. If we want to stay ahead of the European Union and China, we should focus on helping our nation stay on top.

[bwohlgemuth]

With all the involvement of our country in the Middle East, this isn't going to be possible. The U.S. has too much foreign intervention as it is and we're spreading ourselves thin. If we want to stay ahead of the European Union and China, we should focus on helping our nation stay on top.

Actually, the process is quite simple for Mexico, and does not require an intervening force...

#1. Privatize a number of industries in Mexico. This includes Pemex, the telecom industry, and a host of other programs.
#2. Reform the government. You think things are bad here with "pick the one who will do the least amount of damage". Mexico is inherintly worse.
#3. Open NAFTA further. The only way things are going to get better is if there is an influx of cash. The right way to do this is to grow self-sustaining industries with Mexican employees (and eventually, Mexican owners).

[subgenius88]

Why is it our responsibility to fix Mexico????? Our government's only responsibility is to guard our borders. And they're not doing a very good job of it.

Because their internal poverty is causing all of these issues within the United States...

We have the ability to apply pressure (economic, social, political) to help this country pull itself out and turn it into a prosperous country. If anything, this should be our legacy....

My solution: merge with Mexico. It would be a boon to the economy, as developers would build up Mexico with its warm climate and thousands of miles of oceanfront, and then we'd only have a southern border about a tenth the size to protect.

[bassjones]

Why is it our responsibility to fix Mexico????? Our government's only responsibility is to guard our borders. And they're not doing a very good job of it.

Because their internal poverty is causing all of these issues within the United States...

We have the ability to apply pressure (economic, social, political) to help this country pull itself out and turn it into a prosperous country. If anything, this should be our legacy....

My solution: merge with Mexico. It would be a boon to the economy, as developers would build up Mexico with its warm climate and thousands of miles of oceanfront, and then we'd only have a southern border about a tenth the size to protect.

I actually agree with this. A North American sort of EU setup. The problem is Canada is basically a European Socialist State and Mexico is bordering on 3rd world status, while we're a very prosperous Republic that more or less is Capitalistic. It could be tough to work that out, but I wouldn't be opposed to it at all, provided individual autonomy and we don't get stuck bailing Mexico out of all of its economic problems.

[subgenius88]

Because their internal poverty is causing all of these issues within the United States...

We have the ability to apply pressure (economic, social, political) to help this country pull itself out and turn it into a prosperous country. If anything, this should be our legacy....

My solution: merge with Mexico. It would be a boon to the economy, as developers would build up Mexico with its warm climate and thousands of miles of oceanfront, and then we'd only have a southern border about a tenth the size to protect.

I actually agree with this. A North American sort of EU setup. The problem is Canada is basically a European Socialist State and Mexico is bordering on 3rd world status, while we're a very prosperous Republic that more or less is Capitalistic. It could be tough to work that out, but I wouldn't be opposed to it at all, provided individual autonomy and we don't get stuck bailing Mexico out of all of its economic problems.

Screw Canada, though - they can keep their queen. I doubt they'd be down for it anyway. Mexico is bordering on 3d world status, but it would all be prime real estate if part of the US. There government/economic system is very similar to the US, as far as I know, just much less successful, so it wouldn't require any comprehensive changes. And we'd have plenty of construction workers to do the job. And bailing them out would be a boon to our economy, I'd think, considering the massive amount of jobs and businesses it would create.

All the racists would be up in arms, though.

[bwohlgemuth]

It could be tough to work that out, but I wouldn't be opposed to it at all, provided individual autonomy and we don't get stuck bailing Mexico out of all of its economic problems.

I think it would be very difficult to tie in the entire country of Mexico into the US system. Honestly, we would be much better off trying to fix the government from within.

I think the US was trying an "EU-lite" approach with NAFTA, but a full blown approach might drag us into the independence movement in southern Mexico (if they could prove external influences were trying to invade Mexico, mutual defense would probably kick in....)

Here's how we fix Mexico, at least my theories behind it.

a). Knock down the fences. Create a guest worker option that is cheap, easy, and well moinitored by both sides.
b). Allow for significant US investment in Mexico beyond what is done now. I'm talking along the lines of "if I want to open a business in Cabo, the process should be akin to opening one in the US" and similarly in reverse.
c). Demand Mexico comply with its internal laws (i.e. the end of the Federales reign) in rural Mexico. Stamp out corruption..

Probably more later....

[bassjones]

This TB case has gotten my ire up about immigration a little too. I know, he was a US citizen... However, part of the INS' job is screening potential immigrants for potentially dangerous diseases. When we have such porous borders than anybody can easily get across, we have a potential disaster on our hands.

[bwohlgemuth]

You and that guy could have had *intimate relations* and you would not have known he had TB.

I have to ask the question how did we survive for 230 years perviously without scanning everyone at the border for various diseases. The chances of something "bad" happening to me are so close to zero, it's almost not worth worrying about.

[bassjones]

I believe they turned away large numbers of people at Ellis Island due to disease, amongst other factors.