GAS BOYCOTT----May 15th

Non-music discussion. Discuss things that are on your mind or things that don't have anything to do with music. Lets try to keep it clean people, there are little children present.

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bassjones
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Post by bassjones »

New refineries won't harm the environment one iota - in fact, they'll help. Drilling ANWAR won't destroy tons of wildlife either. The way they drill now is very clean. Same for off-shore oil drilling.
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Post by WBOB »

bassjones wrote:New refineries won't harm the environment one iota - in fact, they'll help. Drilling ANWAR won't destroy tons of wildlife either. The way they drill now is very clean. Same for off-shore oil drilling.
2 words.

Nuclear Power.
.


Less is always more
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Post by bassjones »

don't you mean nucular power :?: :lol:
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Post by Aero »

bassjones wrote:New refineries won't harm the environment one iota - in fact, they'll help. Drilling ANWAR won't destroy tons of wildlife either. The way they drill now is very clean. Same for off-shore oil drilling.
How do refineries help the environment?

Forget oil. Nuclear power is not safe enough for cars yet. We need to go Hydrogen.
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Post by bassjones »

Aero wrote:
bassjones wrote:New refineries won't harm the environment one iota - in fact, they'll help. Drilling ANWAR won't destroy tons of wildlife either. The way they drill now is very clean. Same for off-shore oil drilling.
How do refineries help the environment?

Forget oil. Nuclear power is not safe enough for cars yet. We need to go Hydrogen.
Note I said NEW refineries. Replace the old refineries with new, cleaner, more efficient refineries with more capacity and you will actually reduce pollution while increasing supply. Seems pretty simple doesn't it?
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Post by zenmandan »

You'd think new refineries would do the trick, especially if they would have an increased supply. That's precisely why it won't happen. Increased supply means prices will go down. That means no more record mega billion dollar profits. The gas companies don't want that, and neither does the government, who makes nearly twice what the oil companies do on a gallon of gas. If Exxon makes 10 cents a gallon, the government gets 18.4 cents. Now who here thinks that we're going to end up with a big gas surplus any time soon. Certainly not me.
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Post by bassjones »

That is called hitting the nail on the head, with one exception. We're being told what the $$ amount of profit the oil companies make, what we're not being told is the percentage of profit they make. Why is that? Oh yeah, that's because their percentage is far lower than nearly every other business on the planet. There's very little margin for error there. They are also regulated by the government as to how much they can mark their product up, something that doesn't apply to most of the other businesses in the US where markup is determined by you the consumer. You'll pay what you'll pay. If you won't pay it, the price will come down.

As Dan pointed out, the government makes almost double the profit from gasoline that the oil companies do - same for "Big Tobacco" by the way. SOP is villify the industry, tax the hell out of it, yet never actually do anything about it.

I predict a fast food tax is coming soon.
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Post by poopstains »

Aero wrote:
bassjones wrote:New refineries won't harm the environment one iota - in fact, they'll help. Drilling ANWAR won't destroy tons of wildlife either. The way they drill now is very clean. Same for off-shore oil drilling.
How do refineries help the environment?

Forget oil. Nuclear power is not safe enough for cars yet. We need to go Hydrogen.
The nuclear power isn't for cars its for electric energy which at this point is created by using fossil fuels.
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Post by adam atherton »

bassjones wrote:
zenmandan wrote:My understanding is that the conservationists won't let a new refinery be built in or around the US, hence none being built in the last however many years. No idea to the veracity of that statement, but it's what I heard. I agree with Bassjones though...new refineries are sorely needed in order to bring gas prices down.

Oh yeah...a "gas out" won't do anything but hurt the local retailer. It won't do a damn thing to the gas companies.
Change "Conservationists" to "Environmentalist" and you're right on. There is a difference. Basically, Conservationists are hunters, fisherman, outdoor sportsmen who believe we should do what we can within reason to preserve the environment. Stuff like recycling plastic and paper products, reducing emissions w/in reason, using alternative building materials where possible. Basically a common sense approach to the environment. We (I consider myself in this category) would be happy to see new, cleaner refineries that would actually reduce pollution.

Environmentalists are mentally ill.

i can't fully agree with this, seeing as how i am, as defined here, a "conservationist".

what i can tell you is, there is a huge difference between being an 'environmental activist' or an 'active environmentalist' .

i consider myself the latter.
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Post by cwallace »

With my new found 'structure' by way of the new job I plan on doing what I can to cut back on driving...

No more sporadic trips to and from here and there...only go WHERE needed WHEN need...all summer...

Just doin' my part...

Chris
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Post by zenmandan »

Sorry to spur a conservationalist vs environmentalist debate. I'm just ill informed. Regardless of my bad word choice, the point was that some sort of tree huggy type group doesn't want there to be more refineries. I could be wrong though.
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Post by bassjones »

zenmandan wrote:Sorry to spur a conservationalist vs environmentalist debate. I'm just ill informed. Regardless of my bad word choice, the point was that some sort of tree huggy type group doesn't want there to be more refineries. I could be wrong though.
That would be an accurate statement. :lol:

But don't blame the sportsmen.
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Post by WBOB »

a sidebar to this....

When I hear someone in Congress blaming "Evil Big Oil".
They forget to tell you that they themselves profit from
the taxes both federal and state that make a much larger
portion of what you pay at the pump than maybe realized
shows the "talking out of both sides of their mouth" syndrome
that a lot these elected officials have.

Anyone remember our former deceased gov. previous
to Daniels. He, for a few months, withdrew the state sales
tax that's included in the price of gallon of gas.(remember,
this was an election year) The price per gal. dropped
approx. 30-40cents.

Nuclear(nuclar) energy frees up electricity and coal consumption.
Hydrogen, Natural gas and to a lesser extent, Ethanol frees up
gasoline consumption.
.


Less is always more
bassjones
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Post by bassjones »

WBOB wrote:a sidebar to this....

When I hear someone in Congress blaming "Evil Big Oil".
They forget to tell you that they themselves profit from
the taxes both federal and state that make a much larger
portion of what you pay at the pump than maybe realized
shows the "talking out of both sides of their mouth" syndrome
that a lot these elected officials have.

Anyone remember our former deceased gov. previous
to Daniels. He, for a few months, withdrew the state sales
tax that's included in the price of gallon of gas.(remember,
this was an election year) The price per gal. dropped
approx. 30-40cents.

Nuclear(nuclar) energy frees up electricity and coal consumption.
Hydrogen, Natural gas and to a lesser extent, Ethanol frees up
gasoline consumption.
But ethanol drives up the cost of beef by driving up the cost of corn.
"brad!
...your tunes and your playing sound really great... all the best to you and god bless-
adam nitti" www.myspace.com/adamnittimusic

www.bradjonesbass.com
http://groups.myspace.com/northeastindianabassplayers
www.myspace.com/bassjones
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Post by MrSpall »

Ethanol drives up the price of corn, corn drives up the price of beef, beef drives up the prices of my hamburger, and now I have no reason to use the drive-thru. Without the drive-thru, my gasoline consumption will go down. Thus driving down gas prices, which negates the need for ethanol, driving down the price of corn, which drives down the price of beef, which drives down the price of my hamburger, and now I'm back at the drive thru. But now my gasoline consumption rises, creating a need for ethanol to offset gasoline usage. Ethanol drives up the price of corn, corn drives up the price of beef, beef drives up the prices of my hamburger, and now I have no reason to use the drive-thru. Without the drive-thru, my gasoline consumption will go down. Thus driving down gas prices, which negates the need for ethanol, driving down the price of corn, which drives down the price of beef, which drives down the price of my hamburger, and now I'm back at the drive thru. But now my gasoline consumption rises, creating a need for ethanol to offset gasoline usage. Ethanol drives up the price of corn, corn drives up the price of beef, beef drives up the prices of my hamburger, and now I have no reason to use the drive-thru. Without the drive-thru, my gasoline consumption will go down. Thus driving down gas prices, which negates the need for ethanol, driving down the price of corn, which drives down the price of beef, which drives down the price of my hamburger, and now I'm back at the drive thru. But now my gasoline consumption rises, creating a need for ethanol to offset gasoline usage. Ethanol drives up the price of corn, corn drives up the price of beef, beef drives up the prices of my hamburger, and now I have no reason to use the drive-thru. Without the drive-thru, my gasoline consumption will go down. Thus driving down gas prices, which negates the need for ethanol, driving down the price of corn, which drives down the price of beef, which drives down the price of my hamburger, and now I'm back at the drive thru. But now my gasoline consumption rises, creating a need for ethanol to offset gasoline usage.

In the end, all it does is get me a buttload of notes.
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