FREE Textbooks?

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:51 pm

The talk is all over the news about Indiana being one of the last states to charge parents for their kids' textbooks. The push is on to give students FREE text books.

HELLO? Those textbooks are NOT free! Your and my taxes pay for them! Anybody here NOT pay taxes? Right now, textbooks are paid for by user fees â€“Â from the users.

I know it's a matter of semantics; but we have gotten so used to the government doing for us that we sometimes forget there is a price tag for all the 'free' stuff, and it's given out every April 15 â€“ heck, it's given out every paycheck!

STOP using the phrase 'FREE textbooks!'

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:32 am

Free Lunch, Free Breakfast, Free Dinner, Free Healthcare, Free Food at home, Free Rent, Free Utilities, Free Clothing, Free ..., Free ..., Free ...

Except none of it's free. It's all paid for by me (and thousands more like me).

Legalized extortion. If it was John Gotti Jr. they'd throw him in jail, but since it's Uncle Sam, they call it Charity.

"Charity is a wonderful, noble thing. Charity helps millions of people around the world. Government programs are not charity and they don't help anyone. Government programs amount to nothing more than legalized extortion disguised as charity."

Post by **cwallace** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 am

agreed...agreed...

I am tired of hearing people b*tch about 'paying' for things...I pay out the ass for all of my stuff and OTHER PEOPLE'S stuff...

Having one kid in first grade I have seen some ignorance with 'other' parents...they put up the list of things that the class needs...the list goes UNTOUCHED for weeks on end...we are talking .50 and 1.00 items...no parent will step up and drop in a few simple items...

Jackie and I end up bringing in about all of the list...because WE do NOT want to see our child or any of the children go without...

The parents that can't give even a LITTLE to the kids...they expect the GOVERNMENT to foot the bill...'Why can't the SCHOOL pay for it?' is what I hear from them...as they stand outside smoking their $4 a pack cigarettes and b*tch about being BROKE...

PULL YOUR forking WEIGHT PEOPLE!! I am tired of holding your ass up...

Chris

WBOB · Post by **WBOB** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:13 am

FWCS(as they prepare to raise my property taxes for
a bazillion dollar expansion) charges me twice.

1st through said prop.tax and then sending an annual
book/materials fee also.

and 2ndly through trying to turn elemenatary students
into salespeople by pushing fund raisers offering
over priced underused junk to raise funds for more
internal materials.

Wish private schooling was affordable.

subgenius88 · Post by **subgenius88** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:54 am

Good thing we've got bassjones and cwallace paying all the taxes. Way to keep the government going. Kudos.

jforbes · Post by **jforbes** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:15 am

it's all priorities cigarettes, booze, and gas are the things everyone seems to budget when they are broke. don't you watch movies???????????

echosauce1 · Post by **echosauce1** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:01 am

I can empathize with both sides a bit on this one.

On one hand, I agree it sucks that I have to pay tax money out of wages I worked for that goes to people who refuse to pull their own weight.

On the other hand, I hate to think an honest family who truly is having a hard time with money cannot get a break on getting an education for their children.

Maybe something is already in place for the second catagory regarding textbooks and I'm just not aware of it.

Post by **cwallace** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:44 am

echosauce1 wrote:I can empathize with both sides a bit on this one.

On one hand, I agree it sucks that I have to pay tax money out of wages I worked for that goes to people who refuse to pull their own weight.

On the other hand, I hate to think an honest family who truly is having a hard time with money cannot get a break on getting an education for their children.

Maybe something is already in place for the second catagory regarding textbooks and I'm just not aware of it.

I have this to say about 'both sides'....I have ALWAYS...and WILL always be againsts handouts...BUT..as long as they exist I will do EVERYTHING in my favor to take advantage of them...

When they are done and gone I will be happy...but if I can get a leg up right now with them...I will take advantage...

Chris

G Fresh · Post by **G Fresh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:49 am

Speaking as someone who has been (and currently is, actually) eligible for government handouts, but has not partaken of any of them and still manages to make it without resorting to any sort of criminal or self-debasing activity, I'm against them. Hmmm...that might have been a bit of a run-on sentence. Anyway, I've always been a big believer that charity begins at home and I have personally helped others when they've been in tight spots and have been helped by my friends and family when I've been there as well. It's so much more efficient that way with money not being siphoned off here and there to special interest groups and whatnot on it's way to the people it's supposed to be helping. Plus, when getting help from family and friends there is the added incentive of spurring you on to work harder so that you can pay back those who have helped you out, which you don't have if the government just gives you other people's money whom you don't know.

That being said, I have no objections to a little governmental help IF a.) You have no family or friends (or non-governmental funded charitable organizations, but that's another thread) who are able (or willing) to give you a hand up; which if you don't, I honestly feel sorry for you. b.) You get rid of the cable, internet, alcohol, tobacco and any other unnecessary expenditures and still can't make ends meet. Or c.) You are completely unable to work, which, IMHO, would also take a lot as there are plenty of jobs out there that pay above minimum wage, but don't require any heavy lifting or even legs for that matter. A lot of them you can even work from home if say, you're a single mother or father. a. and b. are also contingent on whether or not you are actively seeking a job if you are out of one, or actively seeking a better job or second job if you're current job just isn't cutting it.

I know that the above doesn't cover ever person's situation, but it covers most of them I think and exceptions can always be made later when you see where they're needed, as opposed to the way it is now when exceptions are made on the assumption that somebody somewhere will need them eventually, which is yet another waste of our money.

Btw, I hold no ill will toward anyone who has been on or is on government assistance (oppression), I just think that there's a better way.

My $.02

The Hand of Poo · Post by **The Hand of Poo** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:35 am

Let's say someone makes $9 an hour working one of these many fantastic career opportunities that are available in the midwest. This person also supports a family of four.

On a 40 hour week, this person makes $360 and after taxes and various fees can clear $275. On average, the monthly wage is $1100.

The bills break down as such:

$520 for 3 bedroom crapshack in a dump of a neighborhood.
$250 for Gas, Water, Electric and Basic phone
$150 for a craptacular car from the only place who'll give you a loan
$80 for insurance on aforementioned POS car
-----------
$1000 total

Keep in mind, you haven't bought food from a grocery store or even gas to get to your career opportunity, not to mention toiletries for four, clothing or other bare necessities.

So your spouse decides to get a career opportunity. They get roughly the same crappy wage, and after decent daycare for 2 children, is left with around $500 (being generous here). On average, groceries for four is $100 a week for a total of $400, leaving you with $100 to cover miscellaneous needs. And you still haven't put gas in the car.

Ahh yes, the American dream.

And this is *most* of welfare dependents, despite media and political glorifications that say otherwise.

-

I'd just like to say, this is civilization. We no longer operate on the survival of the fittest policies of the wilderness, and this is why we have civilization. Look up Agriculture and Food Supply and how they booted the population growth far enough to leave the forest and build cities. It certainly wasn't because everyone did their part.

A capitalist economy just isn't honest enough to keep people from hording money, and while it's a shame that everyone is made responsible for the welfare bill and not just those who should be, it is necessary.

While I vomit, please check out NE Europe's welfare systems. I think you'll see a drastic difference and some good perspective on where we might want to start heading.

Post by **cwallace** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:23 pm

The Hand of Poo wrote:Let's say someone makes $9 an hour working one of these many fantastic career opportunities that are available in the midwest. This person also supports a family of four.

On a 40 hour week, this person makes $360 and after taxes and various fees can clear $275. On average, the monthly wage is $1100.

The bills break down as such:

$520 for 3 bedroom crapshack in a dump of a neighborhood.
$250 for Gas, Water, Electric and Basic phone
$150 for a craptacular car from the only place who'll give you a loan
$80 for insurance on aforementioned POS car
-----------
$1000 total

Keep in mind, you haven't bought food from a grocery store or even gas to get to your career opportunity, not to mention toiletries for four, clothing or other bare necessities.

So your spouse decides to get a career opportunity. They get roughly the same crappy wage, and after decent daycare for 2 children, is left with around $500 (being generous here). On average, groceries for four is $100 a week for a total of $400, leaving you with $100 to cover miscellaneous needs. And you still haven't put gas in the car.

Ahh yes, the American dream.

And this is *most* of welfare dependents, despite media and political glorifications that say otherwise.

-

I'd just like to say, this is civilization. We no longer operate on the survival of the fittest policies of the wilderness, and this is why we have civilization. Look up Agriculture and Food Supply and how they booted the population growth far enough to leave the forest and build cities. It certainly wasn't because everyone did their part.

A capitalist economy just isn't honest enough to keep people from hording money, and while it's a shame that everyone is made responsible for the welfare bill and not just those who should be, it is necessary.

While I vomit, please check out NE Europe's welfare systems. I think you'll see a drastic difference and some good perspective on where we might want to start heading.

Well the problem in that scenario is...QUIT POPPIN' OUT PUPPIES!!

Of course there are situations when people are out of a job because of being laid off...my case this last year...now they are paying for my school so I go religiously...once I am done with school, however, I will be paying BACK into that assistance handily...

Now...I can understand wanting to get married start a family make a life for yourself...BUT...priorities priorites...Don't start poppin' out kids when you can't afford to feed and clothe YOURSELF...then when you do have 8 kids don't expect handouts from everyone because you are a 'victim'...it is backwards and not cool...

Chris

=^-..-^= · Post by **=^-..-^=** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:40 pm

Yeah, I was there. I went back to skool when I decided enough was enough.. I also worked in the projects and saw the large screen TV's and cable boxes in the taxpayer-subsidized apartments. I sure couldn't afford cable at the time!

Okay, I didn't want to open a debate on the merits of social welfare. My own kids and my students would both benefit greatly from SUBSIDIZED text books. I just wanted to point out how dependent we have become on government to do for us, that we think these things are FREE.

No, they are SUBSIDIZED. Stop calling them FREE. They aren't.

The Hand of Poo · Post by **The Hand of Poo** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:34 am

cwallace wrote:Well the problem in that scenario is...QUIT POPPIN' OUT PUPPIES!!

I think circumstance creates more welfare situations than hormonal urges do. People often find themselves needing help without expecting it nor deserving it. sh*t happens. You can't call everyone on welfare stupid and lazy, some are just straight-up unfortunate.

Yep. I need to thaw out before I try this again.

Post by **cwallace** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:52 am

Of course 'welfare' or some levels of Government assitance go to the RIGHT people, but I would say MORE than the majority of them are taking advantage of the situtation...

I would say it is easily 10 to 1 in my personal experience of knowing people getting assitance of some sort. There is a lot of abuse and misuse of the system that needs to change...but as long as the handouts are there those that know how to 'work the system' are getting anything they want.

Jackie has gone in before we were together to get help with CANI and was flat refused because she made $15 a month more than the level that allowed her assistance. The lady told her to 'have another kid' or 'quit her job' and they would help her out...Those two sentences alone are more than enough to make me sick about the welfare system. As well, Jackie did NOT live outside her means, was in school part time, and worked part time...was awraded a whopping $48 every two weeks in chil support by our lovely court system as well...lame...

Enough of the welfare argument...I think we can all agree that wether we should have one or not have one the one we DO have has issues and needs addressed...

Chris

bassjones · Post by **bassjones** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:26 am

The Hand of Poo wrote:Let's say someone makes $9 an hour working one of these many fantastic career opportunities that are available in the midwest. This person also supports a family of four.

On a 40 hour week, this person makes $360 and after taxes and various fees can clear $275. On average, the monthly wage is $1100.

The bills break down as such:

$520 for 3 bedroom crapshack in a dump of a neighborhood.
$250 for Gas, Water, Electric and Basic phone
$150 for a craptacular car from the only place who'll give you a loan
$80 for insurance on aforementioned POS car
-----------
$1000 total

Keep in mind, you haven't bought food from a grocery store or even gas to get to your career opportunity, not to mention toiletries for four, clothing or other bare necessities.

So your spouse decides to get a career opportunity. They get roughly the same crappy wage, and after decent daycare for 2 children, is left with around $500 (being generous here). On average, groceries for four is $100 a week for a total of $400, leaving you with $100 to cover miscellaneous needs. And you still haven't put gas in the car.

Ahh yes, the American dream.

And this is *most* of welfare dependents, despite media and political glorifications that say otherwise.

-

I'd just like to say, this is civilization. We no longer operate on the survival of the fittest policies of the wilderness, and this is why we have civilization. Look up Agriculture and Food Supply and how they booted the population growth far enough to leave the forest and build cities. It certainly wasn't because everyone did their part.

A capitalist economy just isn't honest enough to keep people from hording money, and while it's a shame that everyone is made responsible for the welfare bill and not just those who should be, it is necessary.

While I vomit, please check out NE Europe's welfare systems. I think you'll see a drastic difference and some good perspective on where we might want to start heading.

Ah yes, NE Europe. Home of 18% unemployment.